Chords vs melody lines as rythm tracks

Most popular music uses guitar or key chords as rythm tracks. Listen to a song like "Day Tripper," though and you hear a great example of using a melody line rather than a traditional rythm track.

Why is the use of strummed chords so much more common? A good many conventions became ingrained for good reason. Is there a good reason for this, or is it just easier to do it that way? Are there significant advantages or limitations of one technique or the other?

Name other songs from rock or country that use melody lines successfully. Are there songs that use this technique that stink the place up?

EG

I think what you're calling a melody line is often called a riff: Iron Man, Smoke On The Water, You Really Got Me, etc.

Not sure if strummed songs in rock/country are more common that riff-based songs ... I'd guess it depends on your own music diet.

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That is what I consider a melody behind vocals.

When the guitar doesn't play at all what the vocal melody is, but it does it's won thing.

If you hate metal, which I understand, start around 0:40

Or maybe:

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I think what you're calling a melody line is often called a riff: Iron Man, Smoke On The Water, You Really Got Me, etc. Not sure if strummed songs in rock/country are more common that riff-based songs ... I'd guess it depends on your own music diet.

Some of those certainly qualify. Page, of course, had more riffs than you can count.

Perhaps I'm trying to draw too fine a distinction between what I'm thinking and what I'm hearing. To me, a riff is a repeated phrase. I guess Day Tripper wasn't the right example, because that fits more into the riff category.

I think what I'm thinking when I think about it is more of an ongoing melody. Does that move it more into jazz? What about using that extended melody in popular music?

I think I'm stll kind of fuzzy on where this leads, but I'm trying to "find a voice" of my own so I'm just trying to get input.

EG

I think what you're calling a melody line is often called a riff: Iron Man, Smoke On The Water, You Really Got Me, etc. Not sure if strummed songs in rock/country are more common that riff-based songs ... I'd guess it depends on your own music diet.

+1. There is a whole style of jazz harmony which incorporates the vocal melody into the chordal accompaniment, but in rock/pop music the riff (an instrumental phrase not based on the vocal melody, and perhaps dictating the vocal melody) is much more common.

That is actually a common feature of most music (jazz, pop, classical, etc) ... making sure that the harmony fits the melody.

Perhaps you are thinking of chord-melody solo arrangements on guitar?

Pehaps. Can you name a few examples of what you are referring to?

EG

It's obviously a fine line but some riffs are just the chords of a song that have been puffed up and elaborated slightly. Something like You Really Got Me is a pretty simplistic riff to sing on top of. In Smoke On The Water the riff stops playing when the vocal starts, so they never compete. With Iron Man, Ozzy sings in unison with the riff - again no competition.

When you get to something like Day Tripper, there's a real danger of the riff and lead vocal interfering with one another. But it somehow works and that's what makes it special. IMO, it's a rare thing to have an elaborate riff intertwine with a lead vocal so gracefully. Another good one is Elvis Costello's 5ive Gears in Reverse. There's probably many others. Lots of prog does that sort of thing.

And a similar approach is used in jazz keyboards as well, of course, as well as horn charts, etc.

Heck, classical guitar is also very much about the integration of melodic and chordal movement, as well.

I guess. I'm thinking of the way that you can drive the literal melody through chord voicings, as opposed to just having chords which contain/relate to the notes in the melody.

I interpreted the OP as being about the distinction between melody and harmony in instrumental arrangements, and used harmony in that sense.

I'm guilty of getting hung up on chords/rhythms as well, which is something I am trying to change. Sometimes even using a little arpeggio instead can really make the song sound more mature. It's still basically a "chord", but just gives it a little different flavor, which can make a huge difference.

I think this may be what I was trying to get at. I originally learned music in public school band playing trumpet. I always liked pieces where there was a cool interplay between two different melody lines that come and go. I'm trying to create that effect in a song I'm working on called "Hundred Proof Mind." It is my most complex piece to date and I've got like five different sections that the song progresses through. I'm trying to figure out a way to play the guitar melody against the vocals without duplicating. Day Tripper just seemed to have a neat way of doing that. I want to use half a dozen or so different melody lines on guitar that drift in and out. Difficult to explain, but, say guitar part 1 comes in from bars 1-12, part 2 runs from 8-16, part 3 from 12-24 and so forth. They kind of overlap but are complimentary to one another. Part one makes another appearance later and so forth. I may be in way over my head here. Just trying to do different things. You guys know I go my own way. For better or worse.

EG

I have always perceived Day Tripper as being fancy arpeggiated chords. Kind of like Stairway to Heaven.

You can put the vocals over them as long as they SOUND like supporting music. Of course, if your backing chords or riffs are bouncing all over, they need to contrast with steady vocal melody or vice versa or it could sound really nutty. Maybe Duran Duran or Michael Jackson could get away with such busy music! (Like Beat It!)

And... arrangement is everything! If you got a cool riff for the verses, but it's too busy, maybe you could interpret it as a bass line, etc etc.

The fingering I learned for Day Tripper is much more diatonic than arpeggiated.

Because it's easier to sing and play at the same time? I usually use chords and then pick out a few notes in each chord to come up with a melody so it doesn't sound too monotonous.

That's probably why it's done a lot, especially in the singer/songwriter style.

To be honest, I probably shouldn't have even started this without a clearer understanding of what I'm trying to do. I was hoping for some insight that would give me a eureka moment. Don't get me wrong, good discussion and think maybe I'm a little closer to my goal, whatever that was.

EG

There are lots of songs that have what you describe, with varying degrees of difficulty. Some more examples, if they help:

Bowie's Rebel Rebel which has the riff ongoing as he sings - this is closer to just chugging on the chords though.

The chorus of Hendrix' Crosstown Traffic, which has some nice overlap between lead vocal, backing vocal and guitar/bass unison riff in the background.

The Beatles' Everybody's Got Something To Hide (Except Me and My Monkey) has a relatively complex guitar riff, a separate bass riff and lead vocal on top - with the lead vocal being more like a chant.

Then you get the prog side of things with, say, Yes' Siberian Khatru. Probably the most excessive example is also from Yes - their song Sound Chaser. When the vocals enter, virtually every instrument is competing to play a busy lead line at the same time.

I don't know what you're aiming for, but maybe some of these examples give you ideas. It's a fun thing to try if you're able to pull it off.

The Yes examples are perhaps closer, yet they can get so busy. I like that, but it's not what I'm going for. The classical references also. I'm somehow looking to create a complexity of sparseness. Or maybe a sparseness of complexity. Or maybe I have a screw loose.

Pulling it off is the other trick. Reality meets vision. Reality wins.

Playing the radio is easier, no?

EG

Ok, now you're using big words that are over my head!

But I assume you mean it is not REALLY an arpeggiated chord, which i agree. I assume we all play it the same way, which I'd have to tab it out to explain.

But if you break the song down, you CAN find two chords to replace the whole riff line and just go that way. Once I started writing songs I realized that song probably started out as an 8 bar progression, and they changed it to the riff later in it's development (but long before WE heard it).

Just speculating, though, I have not actually read that anywhere.

But I see what you are saying.

The fingering I learned for Day Tripper is much more diatonic than arpeggiated.

Arpeggiated chords could play into it. Melody lines have to come from somewhere.

The sparseness of complexity just occurred to me as a description of what I'm hearing. I'll try to put it into words. Think of a sparse song. Something from maybe CCR or Dylan where it's just a guitar. The earlier Yes references or classical music where you have many things going on at once represent the complexity side of the equation. I'm trying to find something that combines these two opposing styles. I want the complexity, but each of the components is sparse and simple in it's own right. I hear these simple melody lines fading in and out, but layered and alternating. A lot of songs use techniques where riffs come and go. You might hear riff one in the verse and riff two in the chorus. I'm wanting to drop riff two on top of riff one while it's still there. After riff one leaves, riff three replaces it so you got two and three going at once. Later, two drops out to be replaced by four. Three drops out to be replaced by one, so you got one and four going together. You get the idea. You have all these different things coming and going. Some are more intense than others. The song progresses through several phases of a man's life from bad to good to bad. I kind of wanted each of those riffs to imprt a different feel. There are places in the song where I want a intense riff on top of a melancholy one. God I have no idea what I'm talking about, do I? I need to go back to my padded room.

EG

I think about this ALL the time. I usually just use chords, but I ENVY the people who can write great vocal melodies over great melodic rhythm lines.

Off the topic of my head I can think of 2 Audioslave songs - "Be Yourself" and "Like a Stone." Of course they both switch to chords in the chorus, but the verses have a nice guitar melody.

Of course it would definitely help having a solid bassline behind the guitar melody. Damn, I gotta think about writing a song like this.....

Elias, it's sounding more like you want something that resembles baroque counterpoint. You could of course listen to any baroque composer, JS Bach being an obvious choice, but you could also try listening to some Gentle Giant who incorporated counterpoint in their stuff.

Some examples of chord-melody soloing on guitar ...

Joe Pass, Satin Doll

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Tony Rice, Shenandoah

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Romane, Nuages

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Jake Shimabukuro, While My Guitar Gently Weeps

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(yep, that's a uke ... many uke players play chord-melody solos)

There are many, many more examples. I think it is helpful for the listener to know the tune, so I hope I've picked something you know.

An assuredly recognizable tune that uses counterpoint is "Row, Row, Row Your Boat".

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing, but it seems like Blind Guardian - Punishment Divine has a bit of this going on in the verses.

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I'm sure other songs on Nightfall in Middle-Earth and A Night at the Opera have it, this one just happened to come to mind because I'm listening to it.