"It's a Matter of Pride" Phase 2! (w/band)

This is Ryan's original guitar but pitched to match A-440 and edited to the song. The plan is to have Ryan retrack the guitar. It may be fine as is. Performance is great, but the tone may suffer with the pitch shift andMP3 issues. What do we think? Then for Ryan to do a Dobro part and solo. I've added an intro/tag. I've put on bass, mandolin, backups, percussion, piano, re-sang it... and did a rewrite of the lyric.

Input encouraged as always. (how's the tracking coming, Mr. Rhino?)

[video=youtube;TtLoG3depbY]

I think you've got the lyric right on this one. In terms of actual songwriting, it sounds finished to me. Great song!

I do think it would sound better with some changes to the production. Not that I know anything about production, I'm just giving some feedback from the perspective of the average listener. The awesome guitar track sounds pretty buried under the bass, drums, and keys. I'd do whatever you need to do to bring the guitar back out front. Overall, the production sounds too polished for the song. This is a raw song about a rough place and rough people, so the music should help create that feel. What about letting Ryan take a crack at the vocals? You're a really good singer, Lee, but you're no hillbilly. I've noticed a bit of twang in Ryan's singing; maybe his voice would help with creating the proper mood.

Anyway, those are my two cents. Excellent effort, you two.

Done. Awesome. I love Ryan's guitar part, but I'm not filled with any burning desire to hear it more up front.

Thanks. And that's the version I was going for here. I'll tell you, if we manage to get a clean version of that guitar, remember... that has been seriously pitched from his original MP3 and gets pretty harsh as a result, but with a clean retrack, I think I could re-balance the track to favor the guitar.

I don't know.

{censored}in 'A dude, this sounds great.

If I focus on the guitar track (or more specifically, what I'm not hearing in the guitar track) I can hear the pitch shift artifacts, but where the guitar is in the mix right now makes it not as big an issue. Is there a compressor pulling up the guitar when the rest of the arrangement backs off?

Breakdown is lovely.

Definitely a keeper.

{censored}in 'A dude, this sounds great. If I focus on the guitar track (or more specifically, what I'm not hearing in the guitar track) I can hear the pitch shift artifacts, but where the guitar is in the mix right now makes it not as big an issue. Is there a compressor pulling up the guitar when the rest of the arrangement backs off? Breakdown is lovely. Definitely a keeper.

Cool, thanks. Yeah, there is a bit a master bus compression that has the effect of pulling that guitar up when the arrangements clears out.

Dude. Awesome! Love the keys work as well...

I think your voice is really great on it... and those background vocals. Jealous.

More comments... love how you've Knighted the production... taken the guitar that doesn't sound like something you'd do normally, and you've morphed it into a cool LA meets NOLA vibe. I'd love to hear the guitar re-tracked just to hear how it would sound... but wouldn't feel the need for it if you hadn't mentioned it a couple of times already.

OK... one more comment. I could hear the drums a little drier. I think that's what I'm thinking... Make it feel like I'm in the same small room...

How the hell did you do those beats anyway???

Drier. Is it the verbed Tambourine making it too wet? I'm not so sure the drums have much if any verb on them but I'll check. Maybe that slick tamb in verb doubling the snare thing is making it too wet. I do this thing with an old wood tambourine and a tambourine stick. I hit the wood tamb with the tamb stick on the snere beats to loosen up the programmed feel. To lift choruses and the odd accent. Add a little life to the machine. Maybe that's too wet.

As far as programming, this was a case of taking midi performances, you know those crazy ones that you can't use? And then paring it way down. It's Studio Drummer in the NI Komplete suite. Nothing slicker that Addictive Drums though. Same basic deal. Found 5 different crazy patterns and chiseled them way back for my needs by deleting a lot of notes. It's not me doing the cool multisample snare stuff. That's Studio Drummer. Pretty slick stuff. Lots of control of which I took advantage of. Making the kick more of a boxy 70's thing, making the snares rattle to accentuate the snare drag stuff. Then I added in fills and variations by playing that stuff in on top.

And the backups are something I've always had in my back pocket for bands I've worked in. I call them the Art Garfunkles. Breathy, soft, double tracked, panned, way compressed. Thanks dude.

I don't know, I followed the sound in my head. As to it being a "raw song". It can be, or not. Maybe the pulling away from "type" is a mistake. I found myself liking the slick pop treatment of the subject. Sort of the Hollywood/Cold Mountain treatment. I don't know, maybe that was a mistake.

You gotta follow what you hear in your head...and your head is a lot better at this than mine.

Hmmm... maybe there is a bit of bright verb on some of those snare hits. Good catch.

The track is great. I no longer have any qualms about the drums. Just fantastically done.

All the elements are perfectly realized, except perhaps the lyric. Personally, I think it needs some hint of the stupidity and wastefulness surrounding these events. Thirty men died because of a few accusing words said over a card game? Where's the pride in that? Shouldn't our narrator have some feelings about this? That line has more of a feeling of celebration rather than ruing over the waste of 30 lives lost because of the frankly adolescent notion that "no one calls me a card cheat and gets away with it!"

Maybe:

It's a matter of pride,

stupid pointless pride.

It's a matter of pride

with God on neither side.

The second line may be too much, but either way I think there needs to be something hinting at the senselessness of this complete waste of thirty lives, otherwise why listen to the song more than once?

LCK

That is very well put. You're encapsulating something I couldn't put my finger on. But... and this may sound like a cop out but I swear to you this is the truth, that's part of why I like the pop production here. There's a wistful, sad sort of feel. A sort of giving into the seeming inevitable nature of the senselessness.

I do think you feel that. I feel it at least and was totally cognizant of it when I was tracking the piano and backups. The low 5th in the chorus bass too. It's sad. And strangely, seductively pretty.

I'm not sure I want the narrator to intrude on that.

So, the other way to look at this, and I may be very wrong, but to say it, is to trivialize it. So think about that. "Where's the pride in that?" Exactly. Pride is stupid. Pride is ugly. Pride is a false prophet. Personally, I feel that in those suspended faux Copeland piano chords. Nature is mean. So are people. All in the name of... pride.

But like I said, your approach may be inevitable on this. I totally get what you're saying, I'm just not sure if I agree yet.

P.S. Regarding the "Nobody calls me a cheat!" comment, of how it's adolescent. I hope we all agree, of course it is. But the point of the tune is... maybe it's needed. It's not right... but maybe they felt it necessary. Remember, their world is a little valley. Once you're perceived as weak, you're done. Your daughter's raped, your sheep are stolen, your house is ransacked and looted. So, what seems a silly, small affront, is really more a matter of survival in a small and volatile world. Maybe.

Wow - I'm in awe of your recording prowess. I had the same exact thoughts as Monkey Uncle; before I read any of the comments. While I was listening to the music and reading the words, I was thinking "hmm, Americana" more Mando!!! It has such a solid beautiful, bottom, but I agree I'd love to hear a rawer, more "Appalachian" flavor. In my world, I would add a fiddle line (can't wait to hear the dobro), up the mando, pull back the bottom, and throw in a banjo for good measure if I was feeling freaky.

But that's me. My preferences aside, I love it~

Hey, thank you!

And... did you just say I have a nice solid and beautiful bottom? You're not the first!

I am going to be of no use on this one

I LOVE IT

from start to finish.... I don't agree with the vocals not being completely right for the song.... the vocals are first class.

It does sound polished but that is your sound.... you'd almost be "faking" it to make it less polished.... it feels like a credible folk song for the pop generation

Its beautiful and I love how you did it together but it feels like one of YOUR songs

Great work the pair of you

Yeah, I can see what you mean.

Maybe the stanzas I gave you were too on-the-money.

What if you said something like (and I'm riffing off my own remembrance of the tune not the tune itself):

Thirty graves in a crooked row

Thirty plots where the corn won't grow.

or, since they probably weren't all buried side-by-side:

Less than thirty years since each was born.

Thirty graves that won't grow corn.

Of course it would have to sound like it comes from the same narrative voice you have now. But it's an idea that describes the waste of 30 lives from a more practical, hardscrabble point of view.

LCK

You just made me smile! Thanks Mr. Stick

You realize I'm going to have to kill you now... that's too good of an idea. Damn you!!!!!

Me too.

Great song.......

....but after two listens I still want to hear the vocals up a little. Even .5dB might make a big difference.

Cool! I suspect there will be a few changes once we get the Dobro and the possible retrack guitar. Interesting you say the voice should come up. It felt loud to me. But... hey, I probably need a little space from it to really know. Thanks for the kind word and the listen Leo!

You realize I'm going to have to kill you now... that's too good of an idea. Damn you!!!!!

I thought it might pique your interest/piss you off.

Don't blame me, though: those words just popped into my head, uninvited...

LCK

Hey, thank you! And... did you just say I have a nice solid and beautiful bottom? You're not the first!

Truly LOL - Oops~