Guitar recording without microphone

I perceive advantages in directly recording guitar for myself with less than optimal room, microphones, preamps, etc.

In reviewing the advertising info on the necessary interface, there appear to be several different competing stategies/products to achieve this:

1. Direct box, active or passive, (such as Radial, Whirlwind, etc).

2. Direct box/preamps, often with tubes (such as from Avalon, Grovetubes brick, A-design, Millennium, etc).

3. Guitar preamps with effects (such as Line6 pod, Boss GT pro, Vox, Rockatron Prophessy), with or without digital outs.

I would appreciate some guidance into stategies to follow for mic-less guitar recording, and product category explanations/suggestions (including personal favorites).

I would also apprecate hearing contrary opinions to mic-less guitar recording (ie., mic is essential?).

Thank you,

ES

This is just from personal experience, as I haven't tried every single thing that's out there.

I have a Vox ToneLab SE (the floorboard thingy) and it records very well direct. I used it for several clean guitar lines and clean wah-wah parts. I did this because I had to get something done quickly and didn't feel like making over an hour-hour and a half round trip in traffic to retrieve my guitar amp from the rehearsal studio! I was surprised at how well it came out.

I have also used my friend's Line 6 (no, I don't know which model, but it was red and not a rack-mount, and was several years old). I thought it was okay sounding, not great, and greatly preferred the clean tones to the distorted ones.

Although I was pleased with the Vox going in direct, I still greatly prefer micing up my amp. I often prefer the sound of the room, and mic the amp with a dynamic mic close up and a LDC about 3-4' away. It just simply sounds much better, and has a sense of space and physicality that I greatly prefer in a guitar tone.

BTW, I have been recording in the various houses (typically, the living room or the kitchen, although I've recorded guitar in literally every single room of the house) I've lived in for years, and never once have had a complaint, even when recording loud guitar parts with feedback. Maybe I'm lucky, but it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal if you have a small amp and don't try and obliterate the hell out of your room.

Neglected to mention...when I recorded the Vox to Pro Tools, I went out through their analog outs and through an Apogee Rosetta 800 converter.

I honestly don't remember whether the Vox has digital outs or not, but would be surprised if it did not. The S/PDIF cable in the back of the rack would not reach around to the Vox, so I didn't even consider that as an option.

Hi there, ES. . .

I think I'm pretty well-qualified on this score, only because I have NEVER been able to get a sound I really liked (even a little!) by miking a cabinet. Now, first of all, I am assuming that you are miking an electric guitar and that you are looking for a good distorted, hot sound. if that's the case, then here is what I do (which I am absolutely convinced is unique in all the land. . . and probably isn't near optimal, but it seems to work well for me):

1. I use my guitar (Gibson Les Paul, Jr. reissue with P90 pickups. . . in my opinion the best pickup ever made) and then go into a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 401 amp. I have the amp set for MAXIMUM treble and MINIMUM middle and bass. I do not use the overdrive channel, only using the clean channel. I turn the master volume gain up to MAXIMUM and the preamp gain either to MAXIMUM or just a little bit less, depending up on the sound (I'll rarely go less than 1/2 way up).

2. I run the Marshall amp into a THD Hotplate set for dummy load (no volume into the Marshall speaker). From the THD (I'll tinker with the tone switches a bit from time to time. . . but remember that they work for the line out in the opposite direction of the speaker. . . that is, the bass boost is actually a bass CUT on the line out, etc.) I'll send a signal into my Manley Voxbox's Hi-Z input.

3. The Manley Voxbox is set for maximum +60 dB gain (but the input volume is set about 1/2 way up) and with the bass rolloff set to 80 Hz.

4. From the Manley direct out the back (NO COMPRESSION) to my AD converter (Lucid) and then from there to my Yamaha AW4416.

5. At the Yamaha, all kinds of things happen. First, I run the signal into the Yamaha's AMP SIMULATOR. I have this set to "Combo DLX" (supposedly a Fender Deluxe) and then turn up the settings give me a good hot sound (usually between 0% and 40% drive on the amp simulator). The noise gate has to be set to MAX or it is nothing but noise due to the P90 pickups (which sound great but are quite noisy.)

I then add a hunk of chorus/reverb and I sound VERY, very good. I have not been able to yet develop a great metal sound, but I keep trying.

Anyway, that's what I do. . . it sounds INFINITELY better to me than when I mike the amp, but I'm an amateur so what do I know? Necessity is the mother of invention.

:-)

Hope this helps.

Stephen Pruitt, Ph.D.

Omigosh!! Seeing how particular you are with your signal chain/method (not a criticism), you'd probably cringe at what I do - which is really not a whole lot!

I basically put my amp up on a chair, stick a mic near where that round thing in the middle of the speaker meets the cone (perpendicular - I don't angle it), then throw up an LDC somewhere a few feet back, and then call it good.

Actually, I usually don't go for distorted sounds most of the time, but go for clean, atmospheric sounds (if it's my own sound), or whatever the guitarist is going for otherwise.

You also have some great gear, and I'd love to hear what your guitar recordings sound like!

vox box......mmmmmmm....

I've been recording direct for years and here's my bag:

I use an ADA MP-1 preamp (stone ages of the late 80's ) through a Hughes & Kettner Red Box.

I can't praise the Red Box highly enough.

Before the Red Box, I set up a parametric EQ to mimic the limitations of a guitar speaker. Check out the frequency chart on a Celestion speaker and you find HUGE limitations on the high and low ends.

I've never been impressed with Pods and AmpFarm stuff. In the end, it just seems synthetic to me.

Yeah, really, I'd love to have one of these things. That and a Massive Passive.

DARN! I forgot an important part of my guitar signal path. I left out the part where the signal from the Manley to an Avalon AD2055 EQ set for -24dB at 18 Hz (yeah, there is junk WAY down there on my set up. . . this cuts it all out) and then maybe add or subtract a little mid or high end, depending upon taste.

BUT, the bottom line in all this is that, if I were capable of getting a great sound ANY OTHER WAY, I wouldn't do it this way. I'm just too stupid to figure out how to get a great rhythm sound any other way.

:-(

Basically, I am ATTEMPTING (perhaps with little success!) to compensate for a lack of experience and talent with great gear.

:-)

Stephen

Thank you to all for your comments.

Let me share with you what I have been doing.

I experiment with micing guitar amps. Somethimes, I think that I have a great sound. When I record it and play it back several days later, I am on occasion still happy, but often disapointed to hear many artifacts in the sound, which I did not notice at time of recording and which so not sound so nice. Also the issue of effects before or after enters into the picture. Without effects, uninspired sound and underinspired playing. With effects, no way to take them out or change them if the recording does not sound good.

Accoutics of the room. Do reflections make my sound better, or worse. Does a professional recording studio want to rid the recording room of all reflections and soundwave interactions? I do not understand this. I do perceive that my room's reflections are more often a problem in the recording.

So back to me and what I have done.

I track a SD stereo mic pair to capture the percussive sound of the strings of a solid E guitar/or semi hollowbody, using AT SD mics, and a grace solid state preamp.

I track a DI from my amp to capture the guitar.

I apply an effect in the recording, either tracking through a different channel or mixed with the guitar DI to inspire me and my music.

I mix these tracks with Digital Performer, and believe to have had some success.

Yours,

ES,

Personally, I absolutely love the sound of the room mixed in with the guitar.

Professional studios will pretty much do whatever you want them to, so some will record the ambience of the room, and some will not.

Micing a guitar ain't rocket science. You get the sound you want, stick a mic in front, move it around, do a little adjusting, and you should be there. For my last client (hard rock/metal), who was recording drums and guitar simultaneously, I simply stuck a 57 about 3" in front of the cabinet and never bothered to adjust it again. Why? Because it sounded so unbelievably awesome in the monitors.

Sheesh. Anything sounds good thru a voxbox