Let's Say You're A One Man Band

There's a lot of intro before the actual question, which may not be necessary. If you want, you can just skip to the question, which will be in bold again.

Here's the skinny:

I'm doing a project myself, guitars, bass, piano, synth, and programmed drums.

I have ~15 songs that I've recorded demos of and would like to put together for a nice album. Something I can be really proud of to say "look, I did this."

I've been happy with my methods for demos so far, recording everything direct into my motu 828 mkII and recording in Logic.

A couple of my fav'rites:

www.thenervous.com/TheEscaping.mp3 - an instrumental.

www.thenervous.com/FunNoVox.mp3 - instrumental because there is no vocal track yet.

I really like the sounds I'm getting generally, but two things have come to my attention.

1) Some sounds could definitely be better, for example the clean guitar in the second track there.

2) My methods take up too much processor power.

I generally max out at around 8 audio tracks and 1 or 2 virtual instruments. This is understandable (I think) because my guitar/bass tracks all have amp sim plugins running, along with reverbs, etc that are very processor intensive.

So I want to get a POD Pro XT to make my computer's life easier. I can record a dry track and then reamp into models of my choosing.

I may also invest in the bass version, or maybe just the new bass expansion pack.

But I'm wondering, aside from the "It's not a real amp" etc, can I improve my methods at all.

So the question is:

What would be your ideal set up for recording an album direct?

I'm wondering if the MOTU is going to be a limiting factor - seems like the preamps aren't that good. I was thinking of investing in an RNP - good idea? I would pair that with an AT4050 for when I actually do vocals.

The reasons I do everything direct are:

1) I don't have a good space to record.

2) I like the flexibility.

3) This last reason is kind of weak, but I'm a student and I don't really have time to learn effective mic'ing technique. I've tried it and the results are always downright awful. I hope to be able to mic up amps in the future, but right now I'd rather focus on composition and production than engineering.

So yeah, any words of advice?

Alex

I bought a PodXT, just to see what the fuss was about. I find it practically unuseable, and I much prefer my analog pedals and preamps. I also used to have a Bass Pod Pro - before I wised up and sold.

If you want to jump into the big league, without spending much money, then think about this.

You need a great mic preamp - API, Neve, Buzz, Great River, something really, really good. They have different flavour, but that's not as important as the fact that they are really good.

You might balk at the price of these great preamps, but by the time you buy a bunch of Line6 toys, and then churn them over when you tire of them, you could actually have purchased a great preamp.

If you get one with a hi-z instrument input, you can DI your guitars and bass very cleanly. You might think you can do this already, but unless your preamp is in the big time league, you will be getting more noise, and a much smaller sound than is possible with the real deal. This affects bass in particular.

If you don't have an instrument input, you will also need a great DI box. There are only a few that get seriously used for pro recording.

The key to great bass sound is short, simple, pure, high quality path that doesn't kill the low end. Cheap digital toys with cheap A/D can't compete. They might have a limited use in making a cheap buzz for layering over the top, but I don't find this to be the case myself.

OK - once you have a great DI (if required), a great preamp and a great A/D converter to get the sound into the box, you are set for recording clean, fullrange DI sounds in the same leaque as the big boys.

Pro session bass players are recording DI bass with very simple, high quality

The music style dictates how successful a DI guitar can be. The Byrds 12 string stuff was all DI, and Roger McGuinn still swears by DI guitar (a Countryman DI I believe). A lot of the Beatles stuff was done DI. A lot of funky stuff, and clean country stuff is/was done DI. Prince did a lot of stuff DI.

You can use distortion boxes in front of the DI. You can use convoltion reverbs to get a mic'd up room sound. A lot of amp sim software can sound better than Line6 stuff. There are no rules with guitar sounds.

But if you want to spend money, a high end mic preamp,a high end A/D converter will last a lot longer than digital toys. If you want toys, buy some good analog stompboxes.

Well, I'm in a similar situation (and similar geography )

I'm using a MOTU 828 Mk1. I'm OK with the preamps. I've considered the Presonus stuff, but my biggest priority right now is monitors for mixing. Anyway...

My favorite way of recording direct guitar is using my Hughes & Kettner Red box, which is a direct box with speaker emulation. I use an old ADA MP-1 guitar preamp for guitar tone work, and run it through the red box to a balanced input on the 828. The ADA is a little bit stone age, but if you look into some of the Mesa stomp box preamps and fish up a red box on eBay, you might be happy like me. If you go to my website, all the electric guitar in the sound clips except one were recorded with the red box.

I find the Pod stuff a little harsh on the high end. If you look at the response curve of a 12" guitar speaker (Go to the spec sheets at Celestion) you will se the roll-off in the high end. Before the red box, I tackled this with a specific parametric EQ patch.

I'm looking into Native Instruments Guitar Combos, a "light" version of their Guitar Rig software sim. It's on sale for their 10 year anniversary, and NI is the best ampulator I've tried.

I'm in metro Boston, so drop a PM and we can commiserate, or even collaborate

about what you were saying about your system maxing out............

Why not just mixdown that track with the effects/amp sims you want and re-import it into the track (and disable the FX) or create a new one with the mixdown tracks.

I don't know if Logic has a feature to freeze/lock the virtual instruments would improve your performance.

And, if you're past tracking and doing only mixing at the time, increase your buffer setting if possible to get a little more out of your system (you may have to close Logic first). Make sure you switch back before doing any overdubs though or you'll have a problem with the latency.

And of course, having your system optimized for recording audio in the first place helps.

Definately get the RNP (and RNC if budjet allows) and start freezing tracks with plugs. Should work out nicely.

what is your hardware? it also sounds like you are recording to your system disk.

I have a 1GHz powerbook and my sessions are 32-48 tracks using virtual instruments and effects exclusively.

Two things... I'm with you on the MOTU mic pres. On my 828 mkII they are so dark I would have to say (and have before) that they sound "muffled." Really not acceptable -- even -- or especially as utility pres on a semi-portable interface. (I would have far preferred something with a little sonic neutrality. Hell, a little high end.) I have a number of cheap pres and those on the MOTU are the least usable of the lot.

I don't know what kind of box you're running under Logic but that's a mighty slim track count, podner.

Of course, much depends on your v-synths and any plugs you're running. How about if you freeze/bounce your v-synth tracks? There must be something you can do to bring that performance into this century. Hell... my first DAW rig, built on a then-modest 133 mHz Pentium 'one' back in '96 could record 8 tracks simultaneously and playback 18-20 [of course, that was without plugs or v-synths ]

Anyhow, I'm thinkin' its plugs and synths that are dragging down your performance profile.

On the boutique-y preamp front, I'm a bit more iffy... there are some good, usable preamps for not a lot of money. There are some slightly more expensive pres like the widely-but-not-universally-loved Real Nice Preamp (around $500 for two ch) and then, yeah, (what is now) the mid/high-mid range dominated by various "neve-clones." And then, of course, you get in to the tweakier, higher end, multi-$K-on-up stuff.

In a perfect world, we'd all have a copy of everything... in the real world, you have to priortize.

I'm not sure, with the rest of your gear, if I would jump into a thousand-dollar-ish pre... Sure, if you know that's where you want to go, and you're willing to spend, even incrementally, the kind of money to beef up the other parts of your rig, then it's nice to buy "quality."

But folk's idea of what "quality" is tends to change. I've seen my share of that over the years. The last few years, the buzz has been Neve-style channels and pres. But I see signs that that's changing, that folks are listening to some albums and saying "Gee, that album sounds like they did the whole thing on a Neve board... it sounds "too full, too 'warm.'"

_________

PS... I'm not personally a Pod fan at all but some folks swear by them. If you're anything like those folks (and I, apparently, am not ), it's something to consider.

I really like the Tech 21 TM 60 amps. The sounds are a lot better than the POD and most plug ins (I do like the NI Guitar Rig/ Combo's though). Saves on processor power.

http://www.tech21nyc.com/tm60.html

The Tech 21 also has a direct out with a simulated double mic setup, so you don't have to fuss with mic'ing if you don't want to.

I have had the best results with mic'ing just off axis with a SM57 pointed just toward the outside of the cone and into a HHB Radius 50 (not too pricey on e-bay). I do Jazz and Blues guitar work, and this deifinitely works for me.

OK, so I'm starting to reconsider the POD, based mostly on Kiwi's advice and the many raves I'm hearing about Guitar Rig 2.

Kiwi - given that it is *very* impractical for me to record a live amp, do you think that Guitar Rig 2 software and a High End pre would serve me better than the POD would? It makes sense, for when I get a better space, I could use that preamp to record live amps.

I'll search around for a nice preamp, I think.

Alex

Alex,

I think the POD is great, and if your cpu is maxed out it will help in offloading the guitar processing to an external device.

Why don't you head down to Guitar Center and try one out? The presets are not all good, but they will give you an idea of what the POD is capable of, and you can decide for yourself.

www.soundclick/com/thisismyboomstick

I've got GuitarRig 2 clips there.

There are several freeware vst plugin guitar amp sims available.

www.voxengo.com

www.simulanalog.org for starters. There are hundreds more.

Then - couple those with the thousands of excellent freeware effects plugins, and you can have much more variety and fun than an expensive application like Guitarrig.

The quality of VST plugins varies, but since they are 32 bit digital, one thing they never suffer from is hiss and hum. They blow away any cheap 16 bit digital effects - so as far as guitar gear goes, they can be better than the real thing.

Except for distortion - I still reckon stomp box distortion is the way to go. But using software for your basic amp tone curve, and convolution of speaker cabinets.

Better than a Pod? For sure. The fact that it costs nothing is irrelevant. Although, considering any of today's digital toys will be tommorows trash, it doesn't pay to spend much on digital toys in the first place. Analog - that stuff stays golden for decades. Repairable too. And some of the new chinese versions are cheap as chips and actually rather good. Stompbox distortion never was a high tech thing ...

Excellent post....Yup Yup and Yup.

FWIW, I have found the Blackstone Mosfet OD pedal to be a great DI box for Marshall-type guitar stuff.

If you use Logic Pro, then you have already discovered Guitar Amp...I am really impressed with that plug-in. Kills the POD.

Yeah, I've been using a clean patch and throwing my big muff in front. It's alright...

it does *not* serve well for high gain sounds on its own however, not even close.

i'll probably head into guitar center and try out the pod myself soon, see if I think it'll suit me.

it's crazy how polarized the POD debate is. some lvoe it, some hate it. it seems like the more fine tuned professionals hate it, but then i remember that chances are, they're going for a diff'rent sound than I am. oh well...

I'll keep y'alls posted if yer interested.

thanks for all the advice,

Alex

Yeah, I don't use really high gain patches much...If I ever need some Mesa/Diezel type sounds (which is rarely) I use the Nigel plug-in that came with my UAD powered plug-in card. But the Logic Guitar Amp thing is fine for de-sterilizing a clean DI.

Count me among the POD haters...I liked it as a headphone/practice amp, but as soon as I tried to record it I went "Ick!" and sold it.

The only direct recordings I've made that sound okay were through the line outs on my Boogies and also a very eq'd Cream Machine. A Rockman X 100 also can work if you need that one trick pony's trick.

All the modeler's just sound flat and 2-dimentional to my ear. I don't know why micing an amp is so much of a problem. Get a Fender Champ Amp and close mic it with a 57 at very low volumes. It'll blow away any modeler's clean sound and if you need some quick cash, it'll bring what you paid for it unlike one of those plastic pieces of flav of the month garbage.

+1 Tech 21/Sansamp stuff. Sounds darn good direct and the amps sound even better with a mic (or 2, or 2 mics WITH the direct signal). You don't get the effects section of the POD, but the amp sounds are much better than Line 6 stuff.