Need advice on digital recorders & mics

Hi there,

Just formed up a band and I need to home record a demo. I have only recorded in a studio and never done this myself...

What should I look into for digital recorders as far as best bang for the buck? Oh yeah and mics too?

Being a guitarist I only have experience using SM57's, but I'm not sure I want to spend that kind of money just for recording demo's and laying down tracks.

What do you guys suggest and thank you,

Finding a reasonably priced project studio that's done good work for others is what I'd suggest. You admittedly have no experience or knowledge of recording, and it's not something you soend a few dollars on and are ready to go. If you want anything of decent quality, you'll spend thousands, need at least 2 dedicated rooms, and most important educate yourself on the art of recording and engineering.

Do what you do best, play guitar. Develop a relationship with an engineer and studio, there are tons of project studios these days everywhere for very reasonable money, and learn from that. Ask questions during recording and mixing, observe how the engineer approaches his craft, and then, perhaps down the road, you can invest in a project studio of your own.

For cheap preproduction, if you have a computer, get a Presonus or M-Audio interface with a couple mic pres (most come with some kind of DAW software) and a pair of Samson CO2's. Use them as room mics and with a bit of work on placement and balance in the room you can generate rehearsal tapes to use working on arrangements. This is still a $300 or so investment, but it gets you something to work with before going into the studio, which is crutial.

In summary, don't spend money on gear you don't understand, hire someone who has the gear and the knowledge and talent to use it properly.

WOW! That was pretty condescending. Do you always impress yourself like that? Is it because I didn't deliberate for 5 paragraphs on everthing I do know?

Attitudes like yours make forums suck.

Thanks for the great advice pal. You may know how to record but you still have many lessons in life to learn.

Take care.

I think he was trying to give you the big picture of things. This is actually a great forum with a lot of cool people.

But yeah what he said....if you have a computer, get an interface that meets your needs, alot of them come with recording software that is decent enough to get the job done. Get some dynamic mics, sm57, sm58 and so on. Get a Large Diaphram Condenser for vocals and acustic guitars and room and such, rode nt, mxl, shure sm7 and so on. Small Diaphram Condensers for drum overheads or whatever else. Get some mic stands. Get some xlr cables. Get a pop-filter. With this stuff you can make some decent demos. This info coming from a novice such as myself, but I've made some nice recordings with minimal equipment.

If you dont have a computer, get one. Macs come with garageband, which is a pretty badass program. It really helps you get the feel of how digital recording works if you are a beginner. It helped me tremendously.

Thanks man,

My buddy is a degreed sound engineer so he can help when the technical stuff gets above my head.

I am just looking for a decent lead on a decent priced digital recorder.

I am not setting up a professional studio.

Actually, that advice was not in any way condescending. It was accurate and in line with the information you gave in your original post.

You admitted to not having any experience with recording your band.

Simply saying "buy THIS and THIS and THIS brand and model" won't help you one bit.

Figure out how many channels you need to record simultaneously. Figure out your budget. Research stand alone DAWS and then research interfaces for a computer, if you have a computer. Then research microphones.

You can buy dynamic mics, condenser mics, ribbon mics, etc. and get recommendations of mics from a hundred bucks to thousands. You didn't say anything about budget.

Or, have your friend the "degreed sound engineer" do the research for you.

There is no simple answer to your question and you actually got some good advice that was not condescending at all.

Best of luck.

Apparantly you can't just ask a question here. I am sure there are some very nice practical people in this forum that are great at answering a novices question like the title of this forum implies.

I can understand why you don't think it was condescending because you and the original respondant would rather I deliberate into a thesis on my technical knowledge and budget and all sorts of audio scientific jargon. I do bow before your mastery of craft and humbly beg of your assistance:rolleyes: .

Maybe you guys spend too much time stroking each others mastery on forums because where I come from, you don't approach a novice by telling him to leave it to someone with talent or use sarcastic quotes like you did. You ask questions of them and help them with a decent attitude because you were once a noob too.

How is anyone benifitting from you two picking apart a novices post with all sorts of semantical ego games?

Congrats on making my ignore list.

I am sorry (and you probably are too) that I even posted in here.

No I wasn't being condesending, I was being realistic. But since you appear to be a total ass, let me be more to the point. Go piss away thousands of dollars and still end up with a {censored} product because you're self admitted ignorance of the ART of recording is dwarfed only by your childish ego. However don't come whining back to us when you finally realize you pissed away all your bands money that you could have used to make a top quality demo at a real studio and don't have a {censored}ing clue.

IOW, up yours.

You still don't get it do you? You don't tell novices to leave it to someone who master's the craft with talent and that they don't understand?? You just assume that the novice doesn't know anyting and talk to them that way? Buddy I have seen that attitude many times. But you are the first to pull this on me on an HC forum. You need to lighten up and not "intellectually pounce" on people. They don't get impressed by it. They get pissed.

I read some of your other posts and you have been pretty condescending to some other people around here and not just me.

Phil's response was great as was the other guy above, they realized I don't know as much as they do and they explained stuff in an understandable and non insulting way. They gave options and all.

What I want to buy and set up for myself is my business, I don't need your endorsement to do it your way. I'm not setting up a pro studio that I'm going to ask you to work with. And if I blow a few bucks on a recorder that's my deal, I'm not asking you to pay for it. I just asked a simple question for it with out being insulting man.

I realize you have enormous pride in your craft and you are probably pretty damn good at it, and you probably consider yourself to be a master of a thousand variables... but all I'm looking to do is some low tech stuff compared to a real studio. Quite a few friends of mine have done this themselves and it didn't end in some cataclysmic waste of money and have us all sitting around staring at it like cavemen at a zippo lighter.

I have recorded two albums professionally in a studio, but again I'm not looking to do that here, I just wanted some advice on a digital recorder and some mics what my intent is shouldn't have to be OK with you. Also by me casually saying that I have never done this myself and not deliberating into a thesis on what I know of the ART of recording doesn't mean I am ignorant. I understand with any technical act there are many many options and variables to look into and did when I posted but didn't realize I needed to post a disclamer with my question.

I'm actuallly an engineer myself but mechanical. So call on me when a piece of equipment breaks and I'll help you out with advice.

PS: Name calling won't get you very far in life.

Ok enough blah blah.

Thanks for your suggestions Phil

It'd be fun if we could let go of the fighting and get to the point.

What stood out in your original post is that, you've used SM57s but you're not prepared to spend that kind of money.

See, save for a pop filter or a patch cable, an SM57 is usually the cheapest piece of gear you'll find in a studio (project, or mega commercial facility).

So it bounds the question: how much are you willing to spend?

And mostly: what do you want to do exactly?

You want to be able to record song ideas?

Send demos to labels, bookers?

Or record an album you can sell?

And what kind of instruments are we talking about? Is there a full drum kit to mic?

There's been some actual great advice posted, but your only replies so far have been to feed the war with wztonz.

So, if you're willing to listen, start by answering these quick questions.

FWIW, I personnaly spent around 3K$ on project studio gear (not including the Core2Duo computer), and I'm still heading up for the studio to record my band's debut album. There's no way I can get the same results even if I invest another 5K$, mostly cause I don't have 17' ceilings like their tracking room. It was really helpful to have that gear around during pre-prod though, but it is a lot of money.

Competely unrelated to your ignorance of audio recording.

Good luck, you're going to need it to get past your ego. Once you do, and you educate yourself, starting by listening to the pros here who are giving you great advise, you might just learn a thing or two.

I suggest you stick with what you do now, play guitar, and stop thinking you can wear every hat on the rack a the same time. Your music demo will shine much better that way. Or think you know it all and deal with what you get. Either way, I don't really give a {censored}, since unless you do drop your attitude, you won't get past pissing away money on gear that we can get a good deal on when you sell it all cuz you can't get it to work.

Have a swell life.

I actually came on here to say I was sorry for fighting, if you don't give a {censored}, stop trying so hard to be right. Lighten up man. And stop stomping on the rookies so hard because they didn't ask a question the way you want it to be asked.

I get your point thru all of the other condescending rhetoric and thanks for your point of view. I will however get into this irregardless of your negativity and assumptions of my ignorance and failure. Please look up the defenitions of semantics and inference and think about this thread. It might help your communication skills and possibly lead to greater success for you.

The other guys on here answered my questions perfectly and thanks for it. I will start doing some homework and weigh the costs and pickup gear a little at a time and in a few months guess what? I'll learn a lot more than I do now and have a recording, not the best, but something to learn from.

I imagine you learn something new about recording each time you hit it and I probably will too.

Thanks again guys and I hope the rest of you don't mind me popping in from time to time with stupid questions.

Later

It's spelt definition. If you're going to try to sound less ignorant, try uisng the spell checker. While you're at it, you might look at the definition of ignorance, and educate yourself so you will understand it's not an insult to be called same.

Geez....

I was trying to be helpful and basically said the same thing Phil said..

Budget?

Total Simultaneous tracks?

Computer or Stand Alone?

Microphones...Budget?

We can't answer a single question without having more information. We can't apparently get more information because we are all being rude.

We can be told how rude we are, but still no information that would allow anyone to recommend anything.

I say good luck with your recording quest. Try Staples, they have an "EASY" button.

Not to get off topic but I do want to address the original point.

mbat1, you mentioned that you want to home record a demo. I think that goes well with Phil's point of what you really want to accomplish. I have what I call a hobbyist setup. Basically that means that it's my hobby and not my career. I want to record my band and if the opportunity arrives others at about the same level but I know already that I won't be producing any platinum albums from my setup. I started with a Roland VS880EX around 2000 and in December 2005 upgraded to Pro Tools with the mbox2 and about 2 months ago upgraded again to the 003 rack. I like the Pro Tools setup better than the stand alone Roland recorder since I can expand it more and I don't have to burn a CD to export anything, I can just take the WAV fiels and convert them to MP3 and evaluate them in my truck.

As a hobbyist, I don't use the high end gear and don't own $1000 mics. I use what gives me a solid sound and best bang for th ebuck value within reason. Example: many will insist that you should save up and get an MD421 for $350 to use on toms which is great but you could just get a D2 for $130 and get a good enough sound. Besides, unless your room accoustics are great (and mine aren't), you'll have other factors to battle.

I can go on with my experience from what appears to be a similar scenario to your but will spare you the time if I'm not addressing what you are after.

$1000 in a decent project studio will yield a kick ass demo that will capture the attention of those you're marketing to.

$1000 in modest gear will get you a basic interface and some software, a few generic mics, and some modest monitors. It will pale in comparison to what the experience of a decent studio with an experienced engineer can achieve both in the quality and production of your demo, and what you can learn from the experience, so, in the future, when you have money to invest in something other than cheap crap, you'll not be ignorant of what you want, what it can accomplish, and the big picture of what you need, which is way more than a basic interface and some software, a few generic mics, and some modest monitors.

Apology accepted. Give us a budget and let's start from there.

Budgets and the intent of the recording are super helpful for people giving tips, so yeah, lay it on us!!

As far as the controversy, I truly truly believe that wztonz and others were giving the advice for going to a nice studio in the most positive, helpful energy possible, and not in a condescending way at all. People here are extremely helpful, and I have no doubt that the advice was meant in a friendly, helpful way. Thanks.

Gold Jerry, comedy gold!