Recording without a click.

Hi everyone, I'm new to these forums so please bare with me.

I'm starting a recording project for myself. I'm primarily an acoustic singer songwriter in the vein of Bon Iver, The Decemberists, Sufjan Stevens, or Bright Eyes.

Now, I understand the necessity of a click for songs that have percussion in them, and I also understand that a song recorded without a click will potentially lag. However, for this record, I'm planning on doing mostly songs without percussion and am having a difficult time A) playing with the click, and B) finding the right tempo for the click for me to play with. This is very frustrating for me and I was wondering if anyone had any advice.

I was wondering what your experiences have been doing songs without percussion without a click and how it sounded in the end.

Any other insight or tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Anyone who knows will tell you NO CLICK unless you need it. Clicks are more prevalent because of public show expectation (smoke and mirrors) and overall production but they do NOTHING for a song other than make a roadmap.

Let the song lag. Let it show emotion. Let your own feel and expression drive it. The need for a click is NOT for feel, its for function.

Don't let internet BS get in the way of making music. If you have major label support- use a click (it will benefit EVERYTHING in the end)... If not who the hell cares!

If you plan on having other people play with your original tracks then it can get difficult since your timing will be relative and you probably won't cue changes well- which is difficult to begin with.

I don't use a click whether the song has percussion or not. Particularly if it's acoustic stuff, it's really fine if the tempo moves around a bit - you can even use that as a mode of expression, which is becoming a lost art now that "everything" is cut to a click and that's unfortunate.

Assuming you have decent time on the guitar, that's probably why you're fighting the click - you probably have a natural desire to push or pull the tempo in different parts of the song. That's fine - if it sounds good when you listen back to it, go with it. People aren't going to be listening to a grid.

I'm a solo/home/self recording musician as well, and for me the only reason to use a click track is to make syncing programed percussion and instrument tracks easier. Often it makes the recording process sterile. I would say do what works for you and your recording style.

I would also mention if you need a click, make a simple non accented drum loop instead. Playing to click, click, click, click really does hurt the feel with most players who didn't train with a metronome.

I've had a different experience than some here. Having recorded with and without clicks, I have always been glad later about the click track. And not only when tracks must be added... My songs just "held up" better when I had the discipline to use a click. My "emotional impulses" do not always make for the best song.

I agree. If you're using MIDI drums or other MIDI tracks, then you have to worry about sticking to the computer's beat. If not, then you make your own beat and don't need a click.

Avoid clicks at all opportunities, and for those projects where it's critical keep the click track headphone volume absolutely to the bare minimum that it can be heard.

Great musicians have great timing. They don't need a click track.

The more I record the more I feel like click tracks destroy good music.

No click is fine, if you can keep tempo. Also, if there are no cues for and spaces or hits for over dubs, its going to very hard to match them up with no percussion. The 'no click' thing in my mind just means you don't want a strict temp, or a varrying tempo, which works for certain types of music, but not all. The accoustic song writer though should not need to be a strict tempo, as its more like a solo piano piece, that should have more feeling and less steady drive.

Doesn't make any sense.

If the great musician is playing great time aka with a steady tempo, how a does click being used to keep a steady tempo ruin music, it really depends of the genre and style, even going back to the classical eras. There maybe need for tempo changes, but a back and forth tempo of a bad drummer sounds horrible, such as drummers slowing down during fills and loosing time. This is where the click fits in. True great drummer and musicians can keep the steady tempo thru difficult sections, but a click ruining music by keeping a steady tempo?

Well one answer is good time doesn't always mean rock solid even beats where every beat is the exact same length. It vary's by style of music, but every style tends to have a certain to the time signature. For example, the 4th beat in blues and rock music tends to be slightly shorter than the others,in 4/4 time anyway. Quantizing some of those songs to an exact beat structure would destroy that feel somewhat.

Of course, some swing can be added to a click track to make it more "realistic" but to me, still results in an unnatural sounding recording.

Exactly. And there are a lot of cases where the tempo naturally varies. With a click, you're stuck with every beat being the same length and the tempo being the same in every measure.

If you have good time anyway, a click takes away that mode of expressiveness. It's like Lance Armstrong riding a race with training wheels.

What I do in that case is after I've recorded the track, I overdub a track of something very sharply percussive like a cowbell, just playing quarter notes through the whole thing. You can then use that to trigger MIDI drums or whatever else you need to sync up.

In Pro Tools you can also use Beat Detective to create a tempo map after the fact from what a human played. Sonar and Cubase now have similar functionality to Beat Detective, not sure about any other DAW packages. But you don't HAVE to use beat detection to make human parts line up to the grid, you can do it the other way around and get a much more human feel.

What I do in that case is after I've recorded the track, I overdub a track of something very sharply percussive like a cowbell, just playing quarter notes through the whole thing. You can then use that to trigger MIDI drums or whatever else you need to sync up. In Pro Tools you can also use Beat Detective to create a tempo map after the fact from what a human played. Sonar and Cubase now have similar functionality to Beat Detective, not sure about any other DAW packages. But you don't HAVE to use beat detection to make human parts line up to the grid, you can do it the other way around and get a much more human feel.

Great tip. Thanks! I've always meant to play with stuff like that, but alas, haven't had the chance yet.

You need a click track. How else can you produce badass techno remixes?

To the OP, I sympathize...We play extremely different styles of music and different instruments (I play keys), but I also play and record by myself...I find it very hard to play to a click, but I find that when I don't, my timing is terrible, especially when playing solo piano pieces...Depending on what I'm playing, if I'm using Reason 4.0 I often quantize...

That comment and your avatar both gave me a chuckle. thanks for that.

I think it basically comes down to artful discretion when choosing to use one or not. You really have to know what works for you and your style to make a good decision regarding this.

Thats the funny thing... ITS TRUE! You never know what ridiculous techno remix will turn Europe inside out! A click map can always be added later though.

But again only if you have distribution- otherwise who cares!

I often practice with a click (or something a little more interesting sounding than a click) just so my time doesn't suck. I'll program it so I can play along at a given tempo for say 30 seconds and then cut out for 10, and see how much I'm off when it comes back in. Then increase to 15, 20 seconds that the click is off, etc.

But when I actually record (assuming I'm actually recording solo - usually I record with a band so it's not much of an issue anyway), the click is off. I don't sweat small variations in tempo - like I say, I consider that expressive and part of the feel. But if I feel like my time is rusty to the point where it's that noticeable and the feel suffers, I go back to doing the exercise above every day for awhile. Makes it easier for those times when you do want to record to a click, too.

Sigh.

It depends entirely on the musicians involved.

If you've trained with a metronome for years (as has any classical musician), you CAN play with a click because you don't need it. If you are relying on a click track to keep time for you, you're screwing it up; nowadays many things are quantized because they were played to a click by musicians who ain't good enough to do that properly. That process does indeed ruin the feel of a song.

When playing to a click, on clicks where you are playing your playing will replace the click and you therefore will not hear it. Which brings us right back to the top: If you're good enough to play properly with a click, you don't need it there during the session.

Havent used it for years. The only time I have used it is when I play drums myself. I'm not a drummer and tend to wavior my timing a bit. With a click going I can at least come back in on a beat or get an off beat going. The other option is for me to record a song with guitars and such with electronic drums, then record real drums. I can then back the electronic ones out and have a very consistant beat that fits the music I have pre recorded.

I've also used it for full orchestratios if midi instruments that have no drums

at all. It was probibly the best application I found for them playing freehand midi.

From what I read, you are recoridng yourselves?

If so, I would suggest using a click for your writing demo even if you do not use it in the final product you release.

There are so many advantages. Ability to copy and paste, syncronised delays, other syncronised effects, ability to add in programming etc. These may not ultimately be the most useful performance tools but when using your computer as a virtual 'notepad' it can easily help to keep things simpler until you are ready to do a 'live' take with all your musicians in the future.

With record other people's bands and I've ran into a number of problems which would have been avoided, had the band used clicks. For example, one guy wanted to add an introduction after recording the rest of the song... sure you can do that without using a click, it is just a lot more difficult to get it in time. Other ocasions we had an otherwise good performance when one part of a riff was out of time. Had a click track been used it would have allowed us to copy and paste from elsewhere or made 'punching in' a lot easier.

And in saying that, I find even wtih the click most musicians play out of time enough to not risk losing any feel.

I found that it is a bit more 'natural' feeling to play along wtih programmed drums than a metranome. Even the most simple things and to keep some parts being more 'free' try only emphasising the strong beats.

There are styles where click is inappropriate but I am not convinced you are playing one of them.

As I mentioned, modern technology makes it quite easy to do all these things now without a click.

Yeah it's fine for composition and demos, but I've rarely used em on "keeper" tracks.