Members Kerouac Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I've been trying a lot of things, like using reverse delays, changing note values, recording at a faster tempo than bounce the file down and import it to the original file, etc. I'm using Sonar 6 Producer, Kontakt 2, Reason 4 and Guitar Rig 2 to try and do this, but in the next week or so I'll finally have my Mac studio up and running with Logic 8 (I have 7 Express now) and Guitar Rig 3. I still don't know Logic well enough to know if there is a better way in there to achieve this effect, but I believe there has to be SOME way to accomplish this in Sonar. Any suggestions you all can share would be wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I kind of copied that on a song once... I'll try to U/L it later. Basically, I used primarily MIDI instruments for the "orchestra" - this was done before sample libraries were quite as extensive as they are now, and VI's were pretty much limited too - and then tried to follow the general direction to the orchestra / idea Paul had for the original sessions - I'm pharaphrasing, but basically it was "OK lads and ladys, start at the lowest note on your instrument, and then go up the chromatic scale, each of you at your own pace, and land on the highest note you can play that fits within this chord, at exactly the downbeat of the 32nd bar..." According to interviews with Sir Paul, the strings were a bit more sheepish and tended to follow each other, while the trumpets and horn players were a little more wild and individualistic in when and where they decided to change notes. I'd have to check my books and magazines again to be sure, but I don't think they used extensive varispeed on that - at least not to "speed it up" over the course of time - it's an orchestra, or maybe a double tracked orchestra, playing "free" and unsynched with each other as they played an ascending chromatic scale... which is basically how I approached "simulating" it - I played many tracks of scales, without really referencing the others and without regard to "keeping time", except for the final beat where I wanted it to all land on a specific note or chord, then played them all back together, utilizing different MIDI instruments and patches - French Horns, oboe, flute, violin / viola / cello / double bass, trumpets, clarinet etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kerouac Posted April 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 I kind of copied that on a song once... I'll try to U/L it later. Basically, I used primarily MIDI instruments for the "orchestra" - this was done before sample libraries were quite as extensive as they are now, and VI's were pretty much limited too - and then tried to follow the general direction to the orchestra / idea Paul had for the original sessions - I'm pharaphrasing, but basically it was "OK lads and ladys, start at the lowest note on your instrument, and then go up the chromatic scale, each of you at your own pace, and land on the highest note you can play that fits within this chord, at exactly the downbeat of the 32nd bar..." According to interviews with Sir Paul, the strings were a bit more sheepish and tended to follow each other, while the trumpets and horn players were a little more wild and individualistic in when and where they decided to change notes. I'd have to check my books and magazines again to be sure, but I don't think they used extensive varispeed on that - at least not to "speed it up" over the course of time - it's an orchestra, or maybe a double tracked orchestra, playing "free" and unsynched with each other as they played an ascending chromatic scale... which is basically how I approached "simulating" it - I played many tracks of scales, without really referencing the others and without regard to "keeping time", except for the final beat where I wanted it to all land on a specific note or chord, then played them all back together, utilizing different MIDI instruments and patches - French Horns, oboe, flute, violin / viola / cello / double bass, trumpets, clarinet etc. etc. Thanks for the tips. I'll give that a shot soon... knowing that it's going for fast chromatics instead of staying within the chords themselves makes a LOT more sense. I should probably also check my copy of Recording The Beatles, shouldn't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 17, 2009 Members Share Posted April 17, 2009 I know that the orchestra was overdubbed, although I didn't know it was done four times (see below in bold). I believe, although I don't know for a fact, that the orchestras were not varispeeded. But again, not sure. I'm definitely not a Beatles fanatic, but this particular song interested me when I got into recording, and is a fantastic recording. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://beatles-yesterday.com/index.php/Lyrics/a-day-in-the-life.html Recording The Beatles began recording the song, with a working title "In the Life of...", on 19 January 1967, in the innovative and creative studio atmosphere ushered in by the recording of Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane over the preceding weeks. The two sections of the song are separated by a 24-bar bridge. At first, The Beatles were not sure how to fill this transition. Thus, at the conclusion of the recording session for the basic tracks, this section solely consisted of a simple repeated piano chord and the voice of assistant Mal Evans counting the bars. Evans's guide vocal was treated with gradually increasing amounts of echo. The 24-bar bridge section ended with the sound of an alarm clock triggered by Evans. The original intent was to edit out the ringing alarm clock when the missing section was filled in; however it complemented McCartney's piece well; the first line of McCartney's song began "Woke up, fell out of bed", so the decision was made to keep the sound. Martin later said that editing it out would have been unfeasible in any case. The basic track for the song was refined with remixing and additional parts added at recording sessions on January 20 and February 3. Still, there was no solution for the missing 24-bar middle section of the song, when McCartney had the idea of bringing in a full orchestra to fill the gap. To allay concerns that classically-trained musicians would not be able to improvise the section, producer George Martin wrote a loose score for the section. It was an extended, atonal crescendo that encouraged the musicians to improvise within the defined framework. The orchestral part was recorded on 10 February 1967, with McCartney and Martin conducting a 40-piece orchestra. The recording session was completed at a total cost of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kerouac Posted April 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 17, 2009 I know that the orchestra was overdubbed, although I didn't know it was done four times (see below in bold). I believe, although I don't know for a fact, that the orchestras were not varispeeded. But again, not sure. I'm definitely not a Beatles fanatic, but this particular song interested me when I got into recording, and is a fantastic recording. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://beatles-yesterday.com/index.php/Lyrics/a-day-in-the-life.html Holy hell, that was incredibly helpful. Cheers, Bodhisattva bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Richard King Posted April 17, 2009 Members Share Posted April 17, 2009 If you feel like it, once you get it done, post the results for our enjoyment. Being very familiar with the original, I'd like to hear what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimbroni Posted April 17, 2009 Members Share Posted April 17, 2009 Kinda different approach, but when my band used to cover the tune. We would all start on a different note and do a coordinated sliding build up to next the section of the song. Two guitars, and a bass. One of the guitars was doing an arppegiated build up as it went up the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted April 17, 2009 Members Share Posted April 17, 2009 Ive done the musical part as well and did the whole chromatic scale thing from low to high E. I used echo in the mix to recrerate some of the stuff and cut it off sharply for the 2nd verse and used several keyboards and stuff in there. I would think using a recorder with a speer control or an echoplex that has speed control and gradually slowing the speed while recording will cause the escallation when played back. You could use a tascam multitrack cassette that has a speed knob and then playing it back into the daw start slow and increase it even more. Keeping it fairly in tune with the music would be the chore. A hands on and ear on to match the background music would be a must. They also make some plugins that mimick the sound, maybe a Doppler plug or pitch conversion might work too and will allow the beat to remain constant? Actual orchestration would be the best but figuring the notes without sheet music would be tough with all thats going on there and the change or reverb depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted April 17, 2009 Members Share Posted April 17, 2009 The tricky part was that they didn't tell the orchestra (or pay them) about the overdubs. It would have been triple scale had they known."OK folks, just one more time, sorry about the technical difficulties!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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