suggestions for my recording gear shopping list?

Right, so in the next few months I'm planning on finally picking up all the basics I need to start recording.

I've been working with a budget of around $4000 CDN in mind.

Here is what I've decided on for gear so far:

-RME Fireface 800 for an audio interface.

-Shure SM57 for recording anything run through an amp.

-EV RE20 for all purpose acoustic recording

-Haven't decided on monitors yet, but I figured I'd put the rest of the money into these, up to maybe $600 per speaker.

I guess there are still a few big questions I have. I haven't included a preamp in this list at all. From what I've heard about them, once you throw a preamp into the equation things get really pricey really fast. I had decided to go the route of finding an audio interface that has better quality preamps built in.

Anyways, when it comes to the Audio Interface, I'm not going to be recording a whole bunch of stuff at once. I'm thinking I would usually only need to record 2 or 3 people at a time, but for the most part I would just be recording myself. At the same time, I wanted to make sure I was picking up an audio interface with very high quality AD/DA converters.

So, does anybody have a suggestion for what could possibly be a simpler and cheaper firewire audio interface that will be as good as the fireface in the preamp/converter area?

I guess, after that... I still don't know a whole lot about recording gear, but am I completely stupid to be relying on the preamps built into a high-end audio interface? I'm open to the idea of spending up to $1000 on a preamp if I can get a stellar audio interface for $1000 or less. But I'm not crazy about doing that unless I know without a doubt that it would be the best option. As far as I can tell, with the money I've got, I would be just as well off with the preamps in the fireface.

As for the mics. I think I'd primarily be using the RE20 for voice, but I'd also like to have a mic that I could rely on for recording a wide variety of acoustic instruments, including percussion. I will probably also end up recording a lot of my friends bass playing, so yeah, a good, well-rounded mic in the $400-500 range.

I'm looking forward to hearing any suggestions.

a good start. spend the time and money to get your monitors and setup right. those are the window in which you "see" all that is recorded. that means some attention to the acoustics of the room you use.

both good mic choices. i'm a big fan of used gear because you can get twice as many usable tools for the price of new, or close anyways..

the RE20 will be good for singing and bass, drums too, if you end up doing them. a condensor mic might be a good 3rd choice, plenty quality ones around $300-450. I'd say get quality things so as you grow you won't feel the need to rid your studio of anything, but simply add to it..

good mics for the $ in my opinion:

GT/sterling 33

shure ksm27/32

Oktava 319

AT40 series, like 4040, 4050, 4047, (not fond of 4033), atm450.used gt33r, AE5100

mxl v67

mojave 201fet

Heil pr30

CAD179

maybe a RNC comp?

headphones?

cables

stands

DI box

not sure about dropping $1k on a preamp at this point...maybe one good channel of something..again look used. rarely does something go wrong with this stuff.

don't know if Phil has heard them but I've been impressed with a few of the M-audio monitors as of late...and the Fostex.

YES, FMR preamp; good stuff. GT Brick; vibey good stuff but one channel and no pad. I have two and find they can get clippy in a hurry with mics that don't have pads..

i ve seen the Toft AFC preamp for around $500, a bargain IMO.. the Presonus Eureka is a good bargain i think. I've seen JoeMeek twinQ for $575ish..

Hey, thanks for the fast replies!

Well I'm glad to see the list of popular cheap preamps. Although I really hate to be a drag, but it doesn't really answer the question of whether or not a cheaper preamp would be an improvement over the built in preamps on a good audio interface.

But yeah, currently I'm using Cubase, and I haven't found anything saying I can't use a fireface with Cubase, but I suppose I could also try to work new software into the budget as well.

Yeah, when it comes to monitors and room setup, well.... there isn't much I can do in the way of improving room acoustics. I might be able to do a few basic improvements but otherwise I'll be stuck dealing without. I'm a uni student at the moment, so I haven't got my own house where I can really do things the way I'd like.

As for the list of all the smaller bits of gear, I'm not worried about that stuff so much, I'll just pick it up as needed. The $4000 budget is just for the big pieces on my list.

I guess I'm into pretty much everything when it comes to music? can't really pick a genre, but lately Animal Collective, Air, Boards of Canada, Grizzly Bear, Caribou, and Wilco have been getting the most playtime. As far as what I want to make? I can't really zero in on any one style or genre at this point in time. I'll need to do lots of experimenting before that will come close to happening.

That's kinduva tough call then because some of those recordings really benefited from rather clear, open-sounding preamps (the FMR RNP) while other aspects of them are probably more The Brick sort of thing ("warmer" or whatever you want to use as an adjective), which might be really great for some of the Air stuff or Wilco.

Do you have a MySpace link to your music?

I don't have a MySpace link unfortunately. I've been playing instruments and "making" music for most of my life, but I'm totally new to the recording thing.

From your descriptions of the preamps, The Brick sounds nice. I have a Rhodes Piano that would probably benefit amazingly from any sort of added warmth.

There's some philosophies to consider. Many engineers say that if you are recording a bunch of things and are only using one type of mic preamp, it should be the clear sort because that way you have the most flexibility since you can alter the sound later.

Others say that if you absolutely know that you want a more colored sound, you should go for that.

I've opted for, uh...well, I have colored and clear sorts of preamps, and even have a preamp, the Neve Portico, that is switchable between the two.

I would definitely think so too.

Part of the reason why things like The Brick are so cheap are because they leave off things that can drive up the price. So if you can use the suggestions that Phil says above and make it work for you, you're gonna get a preamp that sounds fantastic for relatively little coin.

Same thing with the FMR. It's kinda ugly, has a wall-wart. But so what? It sounds great, better than most anything else in its price range.

Awesome, thanks for the help.

So following this advice, I think I'll definitely look into getting a preamp. Possibly two, but then that leaves me with only $1000 for the audio interface.

I mentioned before, I'll mostly be recording one track at a time, although having the option of being able to run 3 to 4 or more tracks at a time would be a plus. My main priority though would simply be finding an audio interface that will do the best job possible of getting the signal on to my PC. I've spent quite a bit of time reading around on the internet, trying to decide which would be a good choice. I'd settled on the Fireface, but now it looks like I might be back at square one.

Just checking through stuff again right now, the MOTU Ultralite mk3? Something around that price, doesn't need lots of i/o, although I would like MIDI. But as long as it can get the job done really, really well.

And yeah, I'm using a PC, and I would prefer to continue using Cubase.

Thanks again for all the help I've gotten so far.

Edit: I guess my basic guideline for all the gear I'd like to buy is: I'd like it all to be stuff that I wont feel the need to replace unless I decide to try at going the professional artist route a few years down the line.

Consider purchasing either the FMR RNP or The Brick first, leaving the other for another time should you decide you need it. The FMR might get the slight nod between the two due to what I said above + it has two preamps instead of just one, but YMMV.

I believe that either the FMR RNP or The Brick are good sounding enough that you don't have to replace them as you upgrade your other gear. Good mic preamps are good mic preamps. I own two RNPs, using them right alongside a Neve Portico (which costs three times as much) and a Peavey VMP-2, which originally cost almost twice as much as an RNP (and at its new price even back then it was considered a bargain). I have no hesitation using them alongside either of these other preamps. Although I don't own The Brick, I believe it'd be the same way. Phil has a far nicer studio than I do, and he uses The Brick regularly.

I'm going to mention one more mic preamp, just to muddy the waters! A lot of people really like the Sytek, which I believe is something like $800 for 4 preamps. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I've heard nothing but really good things about Syteks. I've never used one, but this could be another option for you. I believe they are also considered "clean" sounding in the way that RNPs are.

Hey, thanks again!

I'd been thinking, and I've decided that when it comes to preamps, I'm definitely going to stick with just getting the FMR RNP first. The Brick does sound really interesting, but I have a feel that for just starting out, it might be a better idea to go with the one that has a cleaner sound.

The RMP sounds great out of the box FYI. The RNP probably sounds a little bit better, but the preamps in the RME are not what I would consider crap.