compression and my issues with it.

I have a serious love hate relationship with compressors and limiters.

The generic problem is I have a great tone recorded But.......

There's dynamic problems which cause me to either turn the track down or use compression or my normal choice of just automation.

It just seems to me that more often than not compressors/limiters will add unwanted color or bring up subharmonics / harmonics in my sound. Granted I only have plug in compressors during the mix process. Though I use an RNC during tracking here and there.

Now this problem specifically comes up on Guitar and bass, on Overheads I usually can control my dynamics without getting tonal issues that I do on bass and guitar. It just seems to me that more times than not adding compression to a guitars ends giving me extra warmth or funky background string noise which is undesirable to me. So most of the time when I use compression for dynamics control, its very light and I almost never use any make up gain, and tend to shy away from long release times. Unless i'm purposely trying to add some low level harmonics to the sound, then I will squash it. But my dilemma is as soon as I start using slow attacks and short releases and light thresholds the compressor doesn't hit the peaks that need to come down, so whats the point of using it if I still have to automate the volume anyway.

So basically I end up only using compressors these days as an effect. As a dynamics control, I find I end up with better results spending all day making volume ramps.

Am I crazy? One of these days I'm gonna figure out this compressor stuff, I'm better with limiters. It just seems like transparent compression is like looking for the holy grail for me. Is it me? How do you guys handle this or not? I'm not necessarily looking for answers as much as I'm venting at myself.

HEY BRO

If you just want to goosh the peaks, why not use a fast attack limiter on the guitar tracks? It should be transparent for the most part.

Or maybe you're just setting the threshold too low on your compressor?

I hear what you're saying. Compressing can make a guitar overly warm or sluggish sounding. EQ before compression is usually needed to prevent or eliminate the mud.

I can say, the type of compressor used can highly affect tone too. I have some compressors that will add warmth and others that retain brightness, especially limiters.

I do have some go to plugins that I use, Some to add warmth and some that retain brightness. For the most part I dont use compressors and opt for some form of EQed boost instead. It retains dynamics and avoids mud. I use comps and overdrives in my amp chain so i have no real need for plugin comps. Playing clean guitar might be an exception. If I do use it on guitars I may use a 6:1 ratio with a 4~6ms attack and 120ms decay. Any more and I'm just pumping up the noise floor which can be high if I'm using a loud amp with effects pedals.

In the past two weeks I have purchased several Voxengo plugins That i'm finding very useful. You can download the trials and see if they'll work fo you.

They put a dead air gap on the demos every 45 seconds but they are fully functional otherwise.

The Lampthruster has been making my guitars sound really good. Especially the telewat setting. It really puts them out in front without all the background crap happening. Its an EQ preamp type plug thats very flexable. Its got a bunch of amp and preamp settings, plus gain and mix that realy seem to do the job.

For bass and drums, I been using the Varisaturator. Its a 2 band compressor with high and lows presence and sweepable crossovers. I needed something like this for kick but it sounded great on snare and bass too without making them all pumpy.

Lastly Voxformer, Great for vocals and a bunch of other stuff. Its a combo, Para EQ and Compressor and it has a FQ analizer display at the same time.

really helps to focus on problem frequencies.

I have a bunch of other low resource Guitar plugs, I just cant think of the names right off. If the one I'm thinking of comes to me I'll post it back.

Found it.

http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:RubyTube

Silver Spikes Ruby Tube guitar limiter.

Absolute minimum pumping and gets the guitar up front. Nice for boosting the track

or adding a littel gain. Has a plain limiting channel and one with some saturation. Very clean sounding and wont add all the mud and pump.

I think you answered your own question. Compressors are envelope shapers, not magical automatic mixing devices.

I don't use compression on elec guitars unless somehow the mood strikes me or if the guitarist absolutely sucks. I've done all my horrible time correction etc on him and I'm still stuck with a ball of poo... most likely he has crummy dynamics control too in other words. Then a limiter to grab the geek outs and a slow attack compressor to simulate some sort of confident attack, though now it's under control and not really his confidence.

For the most part, elec guitars get maybe some Massey TapeHead, EQ, and that's it.

one option might be manual (or recorded automated) FADER RIDING. slap a tiny bit of limiter on it to catch the overs/peaks, then ride that bloody fader like there is no tomorrow to make it sound like you want without all that compressor destruction. just a thought

and if I really spoke my mind... my problem is sort of the opposite: I don't care how butchered or off reality a track or song gets as long as it's a great tune because no one else will ever know how it could have sounded differentlty

True words guys. My only objective is to have things sound good in a mix. I mix mostly live sessions so I dont need to use alot of automation. The tracks are a live rendition so unless The guitar footpedals arent set with the proper gain settings, the jumps for leads are handeled at the source. I'll occasionally opt for envelopes if anything to fix the gains if needed but they are rare because the studio setup stays the same between sessions including all the box and amp settings. If I do use a compressor on a track while using an envelope though the volume doesnt change. The compressor flatens it. It may gain up if I also have a gain plugin so I dont use envelopes alot either if I dont have to.

Beat me to it!!!!

I don't tend to use hardware compression on electric guitar (amps) unless I want to color it or it's a clean sound. I'll gainride if necessary, and if I do use a plug-in, I usually won't do very much with it. I also use the Massey Tape Head plug-in and like it a lot. I also use this plug-in on bass.

Thanks. You guys are making me feel not so alone now.

Yes I tend to favor automation, and you are seeming to vindicate that a bit. Though sometimes automation can have its issues as well, unless its very short duration dips the background noise drop has its own unnaturalness to it. So you really have to limit it to peaks or else be very careful of how far you drop the volume of a track.

One of the things, I really haven't got into yet is sidechaining LP and HP's to eliminate pumping or crunchy highs yet. Its hard to get into with plugins, as most do not allow it. Waves C1 does but it uses its own eq the C1 is a strange comp, that I don't always feel like I understand it.

Anybody know of plugin comp that allows for sidechaining to a another eq or bus or something.

HEY BRO

I've used C1 before. Don't you find it adds a lot of colour to the track?

I liked how it sounded on that particular vocal track, but it doesn't strike me as the most transparent compressor.

Good questions Bro!

1) Not really distortion tracks. Well I should say overdriven tracks. Overdriven tracks by nature are already compressed, but alot of the stuff I've been recording lately is more of a light fuzz. Which can have some really sharp high mid transients.

2) No I haven't found the C1 to be a very colored comp, I think its less colored than the Ren comp, by a long shot. But it still like any comp I've tried does too many negative things for me to like it on guitar. I was really mainly talking about the SC version which allows side chain, maybe I'm not getting it but it just seems to be backwards in how it works. To me its a very rigid comp, a bit stiff. Not my favorite at all, however its the only one I have that allows you to side chain a filter on it. Which to me seems like could be very important in eliminating those pumping effects that prevent you from solving problems with them.

In general, its not so much the coloration of compressors I'm concerned about. As others have mentioned, I too like to add tape saturation on some tracks. I'm more concerned about the natural background sounds getting pushed up that all compressors seem to do.

Try a pop scren in front of the mic. Can help to knock of percusives.

A good player, clean or distorted doesn't really need my compressing his elc guitar. They just don't seem to need it. Sometimes for effect. The clean elec guita on Dobey Gray's Drift Away comes to mind. There's a bit of nice compression on that track. Sounds great but it's an effect. The playing is outstanding.

For distorted guitars, I might use a slow attack to try and get some pick back in there but not for level control. The saturation seems to take care of that. But like I said, for the most part, the Tape Head Massey plug gives me a little tape effect and that's all I seem to need. Unless the guy bites.

C1 is not one of my go to compressors. Its trickey to use properly. I do like a mini comp called H2O for guitars. It is a littel warm, but its evenly warm. Simple to adjust to do the job without all the pump. I'll set it with the release for minimum and dial in the level from 1/4 to 1/2. Set the ins and outs as needed.

Theres also a free plug called JS Magnito that works nice on guitar. Its not a compressor, its more of a tape simulator. Its got a gain, trebble and out level. Ive used it many times on guitar and snares, even vocals on occasion. I mention it because Ite trebble controll might just be in the ideal range for taming Fuzz harshness.

WRGKMC,

Thanks for the tips on the free plugs. I went and snagged that Ruby Tube, blockfish, and this H20. I'll give em a shot. I quickly checked blockfish, it works a different but I liked what I heard in the two minute I messed with it. I usually use PSP mix saturator, I need to get PSP vintage warmer, but haven't yet for guitar saturation. But having another saturator flavor isn't a bad thing.

Yeah the C1 is tricky isn't it. It looks basic on the surface, but it reacts weird so you have to get the hang of it. I think the trickiness all roots in the output staging. The low ref vs peak ref, which doesn't entirely make sense to me, but it seems like the C1 wants to add make up gain on its own to a degree, so you have to do a lot of AB'ing to make sure you're not adding gain to the signal. Which sucks, because I like to do subtractive compression, just knock the peaks down and without makeup gain. I still use it though, because it is very flexible and has a sidechain. I just have to pull back the output on it.

P.S - I just tested the ruby tube out on a bass track that was recorded with an envelop filter, I used the shape to put a bit grit on it. I like it. Its simple and has a decent sound.

So let me get this straight.. You're using compressors on guitars?

I don't really mean that, but there are limits to what they can do. I would equate some parts of transparency with using a lower ratio. I could use whatever attack or release setting I want, but past a certain ratio they'll probably never sound transparent. I could choose to affect less of the signal; that still doesn't stop me from smashing the top part of it.

You didn't even use the word "ratio" once in that post.

Ahem.

So let me get this straight.. You're using compressors on guitars? No actually. That was the point. Everytime I use one I hate it, so I do something else. In truth though, I don't really even like compressors on bass. You didn't even use the word "ratio" once in that post. Ahem.

Thats because I only set the ratio to 10:1.

Thats because I only set the ratio to 10:1.

HEY BRO

Maybe that's why you find C1 tricky. It can be temperamental when you're using such small amounts of compression.

I hope you realize I was kidding.

I thought all the mastering done for commercial releases was at like 50:1 with a brikwall limiter ?

Right.. But if you were using lower ratios you probably wouldn't be hearing much compression. I'm talking (in some cases) below 2:1... 1.5:1, 1.2:1. The thing is that a compressor will only react in one way for every piece of information it receives - thus the lack of finesse.

I already stated that I do per hit level checks on snares and kicks if necessary. What's the difference there? Did I just get lazy with compression? No. It just didn't give me the result I wanted without a bunch of detrimental effects. On the macro level, compression can sound quite bad. Most of the time when I add it, it's for a sound that an artist may not have been able to achieve during recording, generally because it would have affected their performance. If we can get closer to our goals earlier in the process, great, but some of those goals are not always possible at the recording stage.

Doing a bunch of tiny fader rides is only gaining proper sensitivity for playing later in the process with detrimented results.

Yep. Thats where I was getting into the whole: Whats the point of using it? If I have to use such tiny amounts of compression to avoid detriment.

Thats why I like to start getting into sidechaining a bit, because its having the ability to filter off lowend may help avoid some of that warm getting pushed up. Then again this all probably with its own set of issues.

What do you mean by hit level checks?

Side chaining a comp wont do much for you. Been there and done it with both hardware and software. About all its good for is DeEssing and even then, theres better options for that. You should do it to learn what can be done for your own personaly knowlege but dont get your hopes up.

I would say, if you arent needing alot of compression, then go without it in the channels. You might be better off with Multiband limiting applied to the stereo mix in the mains if you still need to get the instruments to gell.

Another possibility is the ambience of the mix. The room, reverb, echo, presence can be whats lacking between the notes.