Members frosty55 Posted October 31, 2011 Members Share Posted October 31, 2011 I have just bought a cheap Behringer compressor and have read somewhere that you can use it as a limiter also. How do you set the controls to limit something like toms on a drumkit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundWrangler Posted November 1, 2011 Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 From Ethan Winer's site: "When a compressor is used with a high ratio - say, 5:1 or greater - it is considered a limiter. In fact, the compression ratio is the only distinction between a compressor and a limiter."http://www.ethanwiner.com/compressors.htmlSo... set the ratio as high as seems appropriate, then adjust the threshold and/or input level to achieve the desired level of destruction. (If you're not going for fully clipped aggression, you would presumably only want to see the limiter's gain reduction occurring on the stronger hits, but on the other hand, "natural" may not always be what you are looking for...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 3, 2011 Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 You can't. Behringer products can only be used as doorstops. Sorry. Yes, SoundWrangler's answer is correct, although I tend to think of limiting as 10:1 or greater. Compression and limiting are not different in process but in degree and perceived effect. A limiter is a compressor with a high ratio and, generally, a fast attack time. Most engineers consider compression with ratio of 10:1 or more as limiting.[10] Engineers sometimes refer to soft and hard limiting which are differences of degree. The "harder" a limiter, the higher its ratio and the faster its attack and release times.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 3, 2011 Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 I dont see the need to bash Berhinger rack units other than to be a gear snob. They are fine for a beginner on a budget. They blow the doors off simularly priced components and some of their rack units are actually very good.I have one of their multieffects units that has 24 bit processing that sounds great in my PA rack. I've A/B'd it against at least 10 other units I had in the same rack including Digitec, Lexicon, Art, Alesis, DBX and Yamaha and a Behringer blows the doors off them all. The noise floor is practically non existant and sound qualityis very good. Of course there are better comps if you can afford them. I love the sound quality of my old silver UREI comp, but they are a bit expensive and hard to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted November 3, 2011 Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 Is it a Behringer Composer Pro? If so, it should have a dedicated limiter section. I used two of those when I used to do live sound for a band and they did an acceptable job. I actually preferred the Behringers to a similarly spec'd DBX unit that was also in the rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted November 3, 2011 Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 I think the old advice about limiters being a compressor with a ratio of 10:1 or greater is pretty outdated. Or if not outdated, just plain not very helpful. For one, many of us routinely use compressors with ratios of 10:1 or greater with a slow attack in order to shape the envelope of something like a snare drum. I guess you could pretend that's something other than compression, but why bother with the distinction? Isn't life complicated enough? Also, in the plug-in age, most people associate limiting with putting some sort of ceiling on overall level. It might be a brickwall limiter, or it might be something a little more gentle. The fact is that not all compressors do that task very gracefully, even if they are capable of high ratios. As a result, limiters these days tend to be things that are purpose-built for limiting. Especially in the digital realm. So anyway--I've read all of the exact same audio engineering literature over the past 20 years that everyone else has. I just no longer agree with it so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members veracohr Posted November 4, 2011 Members Share Posted November 4, 2011 As a result, limiters these days tend to be things that are purpose-built for limiting. Especially in the digital realm. Yes, but they're still dynamic processors with high compression ratios, so the generalization works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 4, 2011 Members Share Posted November 4, 2011 There are many digital brick wall limiter plugins that have auto attack and release times. It makes it simple to use them to limit the ceiling and limit peaks without pumping. Using a hardware unit usually requires you to turn the release time up so there are no valleysbetween the peaks and theres little or no pumping occuring. The release time overlaps the attack time so theres no quick dip in the volume. Then its simply a matter of setting a higher ratio and setting the threshold to limit peaks where you want them to go no higher. The compressor does have to be good though, because running a comp that way leaves the gates open and any ambiant noise the compressor makeswill be quite apparent. Noise gates need to be turned off too because there wont be peaks and valley used to trigger them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Yes, SoundWrangler's answer is correct, although I tend to think of limiting as 10:1 or greater. Agreed. No disrespect to Ethan, but I wouldn't consider 5:1 as "limiting" either, but 10:1 is, for all practical purposes, "limiting", although a true "brickwall limiter" would have an infinity:1 ratio, and "zero" attack time - complete and near-instantaneous gain reduction in the ~1 attosecond attack time range... In general, I normally use limiters sparingly, or as a safety net, and not to "slam" stuff flat. For gentle limiting, try a fairly high threshold (-6db), high ratio (10:1 or higher) and the fastest attack time the compressor / limiter has on it. Release time will depend on the material and the tempo, but if you need a starting point, try 300 ms. Fine tune the threshold level by watching the gain reduction meter - and more importantly - by listening to the compressor's effect on the material. As a broad generalization, I normally like to only take one or two dB off the loudest peaks, so adjust your threshold higher or lower as needed. If you're dropping 6-12dB off the peaks, you might be hitting it too hard - that's where your ears come in. When it sounds "right" then it is. But be careful - lots of compression and limiting can be really addictive and seductive. It may sound good but you might overlook how much it's flattening the dynamics if you're not paying attention, so don't be that guy. Listen and make sure the end result of what you're doing is still musical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 6, 2011 Members Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think the old advice about limiters being a compressor with a ratio of 10:1 or greater is pretty outdated. Or if not outdated, just plain not very helpful. For one, many of us routinely use compressors with ratios of 10:1 or greater with a slow attack in order to shape the envelope of something like a snare drum. I guess you could pretend that's something other than compression, but why bother with the distinction? Isn't life complicated enough? It was only in the realm of answering some poor guy's question about a hardware compressor, and one that I don't even particularly like. Read below. Also, in the plug-in age, most people associate limiting with putting some sort of ceiling on overall level. It might be a brickwall limiter, or it might be something a little more gentle. The fact is that not all compressors do that task very gracefully, even if they are capable of high ratios. As a result, limiters these days tend to be things that are purpose-built for limiting. Especially in the digital realm. So anyway--I've read all of the exact same audio engineering literature over the past 20 years that everyone else has. I just no longer agree with it so much. I sort of agree with you...except that the question posted was about a HARDWARE compressor. I therefore stand by my assertion that 10:1 or more is would be more typical of what people would consider limiting. I don't really give a rat's ass, personally, as I don't refer to 9:1 as "almost limiting", recognizing that 10:1 is a relatively arbitrary ratio to "define" limiting. It could just as easily have been defined as 12:1 or 15:1. I just don't care. Nonetheless, the question was about a HARDWARE compressor, so I limited my discussion to that. "Limiting" often takes on another sort of "definition" in pluginland, although there too, I would tend to refer to "limiting" as "limiting" and refer to putting a ceiling on an overall level and coupling that with bringing up the level up to that ceiling as "gain optimization". I'm sure you'll debate that, and you may grind me down by the mere fact that I find attempting to define stuff as semantic debates which go round and round in circles and bore the piss out of me, and I would just scream "uncle" or not respond any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 6, 2011 Members Share Posted November 6, 2011 Yes, but they're still dynamic processors with high compression ratios, so the generalization works. Pretty much, yeah, because limiting is limiting. Gain optimization is a bit different, and I often see people referring to gain optimization as brickwall limiting or other things, which isn't exactly right, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 6, 2011 Members Share Posted November 6, 2011 Agreed. No disrespect to Ethan, but I wouldn't consider 5:1 as "limiting" either, but 10:1 is, for all practical purposes, "limiting", although a true "brickwall limiter" would have an infinity:1 ratio, and "zero" attack time - complete and near-instantaneous gain reduction in the ~1 attosecond attack time range... Discussing something other than semantics definitely interests me more. And here, true "brickwall limiting" is infinity:1 because it would just stop the audio cold past a defined point. Now, I realize that this isn't the generally "accepted" definition of "limiting", but if I am going to stop something cold in the hardware realm, I am going to hike up that compressor as far as it'll go, which on of my compressors is either 50:1 or infinity:1, I forget which. And in the plugin world, I'll simply use a gain optimization control and set it to whatever it is I don't want the audio to exceed (which on a Master Buss is most likely somewhere around "-0.2" or "-0.3", but that's my personal preference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Nick Posted November 14, 2011 Members Share Posted November 14, 2011 One might also choose to make the distinction between a loudness maximizer and a limiter (in the classic sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.