About Vista

I found this interesting topic, I already knew I wouldn't get Windows Vista, I don't need an OS upgrade, but this thing seems pretty scary! :

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21166

Have you actually tried Vista beta yet?

All encryption/anti-piracy measures inevitably cause performance loss. It's all bogus, but it's not new and if you are running any of the major multitrack sequencers you are suffering from these issues already.

IMO Software vendors should quit with the exorbitant upcharging for licensing on the grounds that it is needed to offset the cost of R+D. As if we are all too stupid to figure out that the engineers make squat compared to the million dollar executive salaries; Lawyers fees; and marketing campaigns to convince you that these sort of anti-piracy features are helpful.

No, not tried at all. My system is perfectly fine with XP, I'm dsp based mainly, don't care about future native software, Cubase is fine so far as I use it just like a simple recorder, I won't need any OS change, fortunately

I'm not sure I can think of any ways that encryption or DRM effect the operation of DAWs in XP.

Of course, there's encrypted material you probably can't open in your DAW but I don't think that's what we're talking about. If I understand the gist of the issue being widely discussed, they're talking about a degradation of DRMed content as it's displayed on the user's computer.

Is there something I'm forgetting?

A bigger issue for me is the OS's apparent inefficiency.

XP had a minimum RAM of 64 MB (and a recommended 128 MB) -- compared to the full Vista's 1 GB RAM minimum recommended. XP needed Super VGA which I seem to recall could be accomplished with a 4 MB video card (or maybe even less). The full Vista will require 128 MB of VRAM...

Now... I'm told that you can turn off the CPU and vid guzzling rescaling graphics engine and some of the other "advanced features" and get something vaguely like the performance we're used to today...

But do I want to jump through all those hoops just to get perhaps only SLIGHLY degraded performance?

Why?

What, indeed, is in it for me?

I have no idea why this guy thinks you can play any SACD through SPDIF.........

.....this is not a Vista issue.

-~

You can sleep at night knowing you've done your duty as free market r&d. -~

Originally posted by the stranger You can sleep at night knowing you've done your duty as free market r&d. -~

I'm doing my part for the free market BY bitching, moaning, and whining...

And not buying. (Until I can make the move without moving backwards.)

unlimited RAM. 64bit OS.

on a side note, XP64pro might become a new favorite if all the drivers ever get written, it has a 128GB RAM limit i believe.

i like Vista a lot, despite the DRM [which i have heard has been shelved anyway]... will be interesting to see if this is true.

fwiw, i have been runnign Vista betas and there isnt that much if any of a hit to the actual applications vs XP... and the graphics was offloaded to the GPU.

What would be the right thing for MS to do is release Vista without DRM let everyone update settle in get comfy then just as they did with XP and the "Genuine" headache, just sort slip in the DRM after everyone doesn't have a choice.

I've had Vidta RTM running and Sonar booted! But no drivers yet for my Fw1884, Uad-1 and at the time my video card.

Once all the drivers are there with the added memory and apparently possible lower latency etc. I liked using it. I'm easily impressed with visual stuff. Ran great online on my AMD 3500+ with 2 gigs of ram.. But I haven't really put it through the paces yet. I didn't have good luck with Xp x64, don't know if it was the Fw1884 again or not but Sonar booted, sort of work, the bitBridge for vst's seemed to like some plugs and not like some plugs(even native sonar ones). I bet by the summer things will settle down a bit and other then a few glitches here and there I'll be running Vista.. I'm always one to tinker on the edge. But of course I have another drive with XP running solid so if crap hit the roof, I'm up!

Can't wait for Leopard either... Logic 8 more ram, means I have to get a new machine... Damn...

Later

What GPU?

AFAIK the Intel

The only thing that originally sold me on Windows was that 3.0 the multitasking finally worked, and it took three versions to get a decently useable version. So I jumped from DOS.

The only other upgrade that's really impressed me with an obvious improvement was XP 'cause it was markedly more stable, and the crashing of one program (almost always) didn't bring the entire system to a halt.

All the other upgrades were mostly "sidegrades" to me, with both steps forward and steps backward.

But ya know there are still DOS programs that, for pure functionality, simplicity, and efficiency, beat any Windows version that purport to do the same thing. Ahh, the old days when computers did what you told them to do, all that you told them to do, and only what you told them to do.

So I'm not surprised at the barely audible splat that Vista is making so far in the buzz realm. Of course, there will be users that desperately need some new functionality or other that Vista offers, but really, except for the silly promises of additional security (where have we heard THAT before?!) there's not much there for even "power users". The 64-bit thing is interesting, but they'll clog the programs and OS with so many more spinning wheels and pollings and security checks and micro-bottlenecks and internet dependency that the performance rewards will be dumbed down as usual.

My question: will music sound better under Vista? Just tell that's the case and I'm sold.

nat whilk ii

I'm not at all on top of the DRM issues but a post by George Necola, one of the music computing mods at GearSlutz, indicated that with DRM and Aero and a couple other things turned off that Vista runs (around) as fast as XP. (Apologies if I already mentioned that in this thread.)

I'm NOT saying never, mind you.

But I suspect, for me, it'll be a few years before I adopt Vista -- unless my dayjob forces me to do otherwise.

seems like the wrote new drivers for the 945 anyway:

Updated Intel

So, what's the point in switching....?

Well, whether the hype matches the reality remains to be seen, but:

* The ability to access lots more RAM

* Expand system memory without even having to open up your computer, as Vista can treat memory sticks as system memory

* Lower latency audio

* Improved ability to set priorities so that, for example, NOTHING interferes with recording audio

* Much better find/search functions

* True 64-bit operation - crunch twice as much stuff per instruction cycle

* (In theory) greater resistance to viruses and malware

* Per-application volume controls

* Easier, more visually obvious switching among applications

* Cool looking eye candy graphics that you'll probably turn off to avoid stressing out your computer

Maybe not your DAW, but you might have a problem playing your mixdowns in media players(unauthorized content).

I'm beginning to think that the best way to do a major OS upgrade is to buy a new computer with it installed, then migrate your stuff from your old computer, one program at a time, so you still can get work done with your old machine.

craig... call me old fashioned, but i want the eye candy ... makes it more pleasureable to work on. at least it gives me {censored}s and grins... more than the drummers i track usually do. plus, they offloaded a lot of it onto the GPU from what i read, and im not noticing much of a performance issue with it vs w/o it... then again, my machine is so screaming i have power to spare anyway.

the DRM is true is pretty petty... just having it check the system every30ms has to tax the machine. i think if anything, they should offer the biz edition, enterprise? that doesnt have it built in. after all, its really about joe schmoe consumer anyway.

it however is a pretty big issue and i am waiting to see the reality of that before i fully migrate, plus... i usually wait out stability for a while on it. but i have been running everything in the beta with great success so far.

craig... call me old fashioned, but i want the eye candy ... i usually wait out stability for a while on it. but i have been running everything in the beta with great success so far.

Hey, I like eye candy too, but only if I don't have to take a major performance hit. First thing I did with XP was get rid of the Teletubbies look and went back to Classic...also got rid of all the fades and such.

But I'm VERY encouraged to hear you've been running the beta with great success. I have high hopes for Vista, let's see what happens.

For disk caching or will audio programs automatically be able to address it?

I thought DRM was going to impact this, one way or another? For instance, how is it going to handle dealing with an SP/DIF port and not steal clock cycles?

How will Vista make drivers faster? If one is running a 32k buffer, and the Vista drivers don't go lower - "?"... I presume there is some inherent process that will allow drivers to buffer smaller?

Hmm.

But will it require an in-memory indexing feature? XP searchin works better with indexing on - but of course I have it turned off...

(not that I care *that* much about searching..)

Feh, from MS? Most of what I've been reading points to it being a potentially big security problem...

I can live without that..

"?"

* Cool looking eye candy graphics that you'll probably turn off to avoid stressing out your computer

.. or you can do basically the same for free with Linux.

The 64 bit processing potential is cool, but I don't see that kicking in strong for a few years - presuming unanimous Vista adoption. XP's stability over 98 made me switch - I'm going to definitely wait until I *see* (and not transparent windows) a compelling, definitive reason to switch...

I have been testing some applications on Vista for a software company I work for.

The security stuff will drive you crazy. If you have admin rights none of the applications you launch will have admin rights unless you right click and launch them that way, that can cause lots of problems with existing applications.

Vista requires a real nice PC to run well and I don't see anything in my testing that would would prompt me to upgrade from XP.

Max

I think you thought I was referring to Vista, there. Certainly I have no prob playing my mixes in any of my media players under XP. (And I'm not sure that they would be affected under Vista... IIUC.)

======================

Anyhow, this morning I can guarantee you that I'm feeling like never, ever again buying another MS product -- I'm SO frustrated with MS's insipid, incomplete, and sometimes incorrect documentation for MS-Access 2003. They've had FOUR bloody years to straighten it out and it's a total friggin' mess. They truly are IDIOTS. (IN the colloquial sense -- not the archaic legal sense. Though I'm beginning to wonder...)