Reverb, does it add Realism to the sound ??

We all talk about reverb. Mostly about how realistic a particular reverb sounds vrs a different reverb.

Do we focus on reverb and its use becuase we are trying to make things sound more real.

Lets be honest. A vocal take in a ISO booth doesn't sound to good.It's not until the addition of some sort of reflective room effect that a vocal takes goes from

Good to

OMG

in most situations.

Is this becuase the human ear expects to hear echo in any sound source ?

I got to thinking about this last night.

Yes. But really, what the ear craves is a sense of space. We want our recordings to sound three dimensional.

There are a lot of ways to do this other than artificial reverb, though. I don't take it as a given that a track "needs" reverb. But then, I also don't tend to record stuff in a really tight dead space.

I think it's because we like hearing things have space. I have listened to dry as a bone recordings and they sound weird .

Artificial reverb doesn't exactly kill it for me though. If done well, I don't mind the fake stuff.

Realism?

Most folks have little or no idea what music sounds like that hasn't been processed down into something that can go over a wire and come out some speakers. Seriously, they don't have a clue.

It's all about illusion.

Real life has reverb. The use of reverb on recordings should be meant to approximate real life spaces so that your listeners' ears can relate to it on that level. That having been said, one of the most common early mistakes in recording is falling into the "this sounds cool, let's add more!" trap. If you want to emulate actual spaces so that your listener feels more immersed in your song, moderation is the key.

And like Lee says, reverb is only one way to create dimensionality to your music. Your mix should have a left-to-right soundfield, but also a front-to-back soundfield where you should be able to draw the physical location of the sound sources. There are many tools in the engineer's bag of tricks that will help create the illusion of dimensionality.

Not starting a debate just a conversation.

That said

It it presumably correct that the opnion of most folks here so far would be that Reverb and other Similar Effects add a sense of Space or dimensionalism to a source sound in order to offer immerson to the listner.

I live big reflective spaces. Most of my fondest memorys of playing music are playing in orchsetras etc and large rooms as a kid. I loved the sound of a clarinet bouncing all around.

I wonder how much reverb we actually have in our dialy lives that we simply intrept as proximity ?

What would a sterile dry world sound like ?

I am trying build such a space. Trying to find the perfect structure. I think I may have found one reasonably priced.

When I was (relatively) a kid, in my 20s, and first playing guitar, I used to seek out various reverberant spaces around town to play in. I really loved taking my acoustic guitar to different places to see what kinds of sounds I could get going. Some of my favorites were a particularly echoey locker room in the art department at Long Beach State (augmented by the frequent appearance of cute girl art students and a generally very tolerant attitude among the other students [i wasn't in the art dept]), as well as the top of the Student Union building, which was partially roofed but had open sides, meaning I had an echo that got played with by the wind, which seemed to cause really cool phase-shift and doppler type effects. (There may have been other factors, at times. Ahem.)

Another spot I really liked for sound -- but that could get pretty creepy -- was a long (several hundred feet) underground tunnel (are there other kinds of tunnels, I guess there are) that ran from a bluff-top park, under a busy four lane street, under more park, and finally emerged halfway up the side of a cliff on the beach. It was really cool... but sometimes you met some very interesting folks, as it was largely forgoten. And sometimes it didn't, you know, smell so fresh. Ahem. But the echoes went on just about forever. It was sealed up a couple decades ago.

I keep toying with the idea of going out and recording and videoing acoustic guitar pieces (or even guitar/vocals) in different physical locations... A while back I caught a vid of John Prine playing and singing out on some kind of row boat or barge on a river and it looked so cool. Another vid had Rory Gallagher playing an acoustic guitar seated on the hood of a Vauxhall or other old UK car in a parking lot... I dig that stuff. (Although no reverberation in those open space recordings, of course. A little wind noise.)

Noted producer Bill Szymczyk conducted numerous experiments in this sort of production in the 1970s.

What Lee said and Blue... +1

Coming from a mostly Church music background, I`m used to hearing lots of reverb. Some spaces sound better than others. The human voice does sound better with some reverb in a live setting and recording setting. Its all about space and reverb sort of dulls the edges out which is often a pleasant thing. Its also smooths out phrasing. Many times, if I`m in a space with lots of reverb, I have another element to work with to make my voice much more dynamic. And there is something to be said about reverb adding a sense of mystery and depth to something, especially in a sacred setting.

What Lee and nero1st and blue2blue and Jeff and Ernest said. +1.

Not really looking for any sort of agreement. Maybe a discussion on the phycology of the way reverb sounds and why it sound to the human mind and ear.

Freedom...

At the most basic level reverberation tells us whether we are confined or free.

Coffin or canyon and everything in between.

Well, the ear-brain continuum uses reflections to localize something in space. It also uses the stereo field, meaning we have two ears and we process a lot of our sense of space by subconsciously measuring the distance between the reflections in each ear. You may know that the ears and the brain also use this information to give us our sense of balance, or knowing where WE are in relation to things around us, so we don't fall over.

So, even if you're recording in a pretty dead space, and you don't use any artificial reverb, you can still create dimension by doing things like using multiple mics to record vocals in stereo in various ways, using minute delays, that sort of thing. You may or may not also be familiar with binaural recordings, where the mics are actually placed on a dummy human head in the spots where our ears would be, which creates an incredibly "realistic" sense of the space being recorded (of course, your goal may not actually be to sound realistic, but just sayin'...)

I don't want to sound like I have something against artificial verb - I don't, if it sounds good, and I use it quite often. But I think it's good to know other ways of achieving space and dimension, which oftentimes are what people are really looking for when they reach for the verb.

Adding additional reverb later to a track is not really adding reality, but adding artifical ambience, processing three dimensional space with a reverberator.

Reality is recording the ambience of a real room simultanously with the direct signal.

Artifical reverberation and acoustic ambience are two different things.

Well, the ear-brain continuum uses reflections to localize something in space. It also uses the stereo field, meaning we have two ears and we process a lot of our sense of space by subconsciously measuring the distance between the reflections in each ear. You may know that the the ears and the brain also use this information to give us our sense of balance, or knowing where WE are in relation to things around us, so we don't fall over. So, even if you're recording in a pretty dead space, and you don't use any artificial reverb, you can still create dimension by doing things like using multiple mics to record vocals in stereo in various ways, using minute delays, that sort of thing. You may or may not also be familiar with binaural recordings, where the mics are actually placed on a dummy human head in the spots where our ears would be, which creates an incredibly "realistic" sense of the space being recorded (of course, your goal may not actually be to sound realistic, but just sayin'...) I don't want to sound like I have something against artificial verb - I don't, if it sounds good, and I use it quite often. But I think it's good to know other ways of achieving space and dimension, which oftentimes are what people are really looking for when they reach for the verb.

I hadn't really perspectivised it this way before. Good thoughts and a few new perspectives. I like this thread.

I understand the ear craving for spatial cues and localization. I wonder if there is something else critical that reverb changes in our perception of pitch. Reverb and response changes along a frequency spectrum. Ernest's example of singing in sacred spaces is a good example of the pursuit of euphony. People sing in churches because it sounds good to them. Those vocals probably would not sound as good, or real, dry.

Rudolf. We all wish we could afford Abbey road and its myriad of rooms. But alas not everyone has the sort of financial apptitude of means. If I ever hit the lotto. You better belive I will build one badass studio.

I got a huge reverb chamber out in my back yard I should try out some time. Its called a built in pool. All I need to do is waterproof a speaker, sink it, then do the same for a mic and see what happens. Maybe i can get some good Splash Cymbals, Flipper Guitar, Mole Bass or Diver Dan Vocals happening or something like that.

hope this helps!

http://homepage.mac.com/bavala/thesis.htm

Reverb (and natural ambience, and delay) doesn't just change our perception of pitch - it literally changes the pitch, at least in the harmonic overtones. Or I should say, it causes overtones at certain frequencies to be amplified while others are cancelled.

Spaces that are purposely designed for good acoustics are designed such that the comb filters caused by reflections reinforce pleasing harmonics as opposed to dissonant ones. If you're using an artificial verb or delay, you may or may not be thinking along those lines. But changing the length or volume of reverb or delay by only a few milliseconds really affects the phase relationship between the original signal and the reflections, thus it affects which harmonics come through.

The portability of digital recording rigs means it's pretty easy these days to seek out acoustically pleasing spaces and record in them. You know, find a church or whatever and ask them if you can record there on a day when they're not having any other activities. Unfortunately most people entirely miss this opportunity and stay locked in their bedrooms with a bunch of plugins.

Unfortunately most people entirely miss this opportunity and stay locked in their bedrooms with a bunch of plugins.

... and that is how it sounds then (no grin smilie).

when do expect to hit the lotto jackpot with a bedroom recording?

the most important thing with artifical reverb is early reflections

early reflections gives the listener the cue in what space the music happens, and where he is as listener