Why such big kits?

Why such big kits? Is it the same concept with guitarists and bassists with more than standard numbers of strings and lots of effects? I know some cymbals make different sounds like the "china" and "splash".

Is there anyone in here that just sticks to the simple (kick,snare,hi-hat) setup?

Please don't flame me...this is a serious post and I'm just curious.

Some drummers like the simplicity of a 3 piece kit with hats and a crash/ride. Others like all the options available with a 9+ piece kit with tons of cymbals. Most of us like something in between. Big kits aren't better or more necessary than small kits (a good drummer can do just as much with a 4 piece as he can with an 8 piece); it's just personal preference.

there's a lot of factors involved in picking a certain size kit. Personally, i like playing on a medium to small sized kit because when i play on a huge kit, i start playing less intricately and just start hitting as many things as i can when i fill. Plus, who wants to carry around 2 bass drums, 5 toms, and 10 cymbals? Not me. I have to lug it all in my jeep. Once your kit starts getting real big, you have to start positioning things kind of far from you as well, which slows down your playing. I like things real tight around me for maximum speed and precision.

As said before, it boils down to personal preference. I'd prefer to have a 7-piece kit with 8 cymbals (if I could afford it right now). Some guys prefer to have a kick, a snare, and a ride. Some guys prefer a 12-piece with 18 cymbals. Then there's Terry Bozzio, who prefers to have a stageful of percussion. Whatever works for you and your budget.

Each type of setup has its own advantages and disadvantages. A larger setup means that you can play fills that you just can not play with a smaller kit simply by virtue of having the drums to play the fill, while having a smaller setup means that you don't have to strain to reach that 18" floor tom that is four feet away. Personally, I use a four piece setup with two crashes, a ride and a hi hat. I have used larger setups in the past, but for me, I prefer being able to reach everything easily over being able to play a tom fill that requires six toms to do it.

Well, I think for beginners, less is definitely more. Too many drums before you really know what to do with them can seriously hinder your development IMO. Once you develop an understanding of drumming though and develop your own style, then yes, you should shape the kit around your needs and desires and go from there. Some guys can make a three piece sound like a 10-piece. Other guys can accomplish what they on a 10-piece with a simple 5-piece with much less effort.

Currently, I'm happy with a 6-piece and think I'd be more than fine with a 5-piece. Don't really have a need for a ton of cymbals as you can work each one for some varying tones...it would be cool to have some odd ball cymbals though. Sometimes I'll jam with my bass player and try using only the hat, the snare and maybe some kick. As we jam, I work on maximizing what I can get out of these few pieces. Then as you come up with cool beats on the hat or some nifty offbeat sidesticks etc. it makes it easier to work it into a full beat and then you start developing these massive, uber-textured grooves that sound like multiple drummers are playing...well that's the GOAL anyway

I have a 5 piece kit, but I removed the second rack tom so that I could move the ride closer and lower. Most of the time I don't even travel with the small tom too, just snare, bass, floor tom, hi-hat, ride, and crash. I'm hoping to get a nice ride/crash too, so I'll only travel with one cymbal. Personally I don't even like the sound of the bigger kits, I think they just sound over done.

Actually I have been listening to a lot of simple stuff lately and thus have been playing and gigging with only a bass, snare, hi hats, 2 crashes, a ride, and a splash. It is really cool...just sit back in the pocket...snare fill on occasion...nothing too complicated...just groove.

Sometimes you can... sometimes you can't. For those "coffee house" gigs I do often, all i need is ride, splash, HH, kick & snare. But then when I'm playing rock music in a club, that simply is not going to work. I add 3 toms, 2 crashes, & a china, to allow me to express myself musically in ways that the other setup will not allow.

you have to think about that your trying to acomplish musically. If a very simple set works for your music... fine, If not... that's fine, too.

Yeah. If I'm playing showtunes, I bring a ride, a splash, hi-hats, snare, kick, and one tom. If I'm playing rock, I add my double pedal, all the rest of my cymbals, and I use all three toms. If I'm playing jazz or blues, I split the difference. Ride, one or two crashes, splash, hi-hats, and all of my toms.

Originally posted by Slap_Thatb_Ass Why such big kits? Is it the same concept with guitarists and bassists with more than standard numbers of strings and lots of effects? I know some cymbals make different sounds like the "china" and "splash". Is there anyone in here that just sticks to the simple (kick,snare,hi-hat) setup? Please don't flame me...this is a serious post and I'm just curious.

I started like most people with a five-piece. After listening to some metallica and slayer...I decided I was going to save for a doublebass kit.

Don't get me wrong; if I had the space I'd have a three-piece set up right next to my kit. Playing on any different kit is fun...it challenges your brain to adapt to a different approach and helps your creativity. And its fun to do something different.

Man does that sound boring No offense

Originally posted by Ponch_A_Rella Man does that sound boring No offense

About like a three key piano:D

Originally posted by Slap_Thatb_Ass Why such big kits? Is it the same concept with guitarists and bassists with more than standard numbers of strings and lots of effects? I know some cymbals make different sounds like the "china" and "splash". Is there anyone in here that just sticks to the simple (kick,snare,hi-hat) setup? Please don't flame me...this is a serious post and I'm just curious.

Well, let me ask this:

Why do Bass players have more than 2 strings? They only need 2 of them, The E and A strings. Most bass players are what I call "1 string wonders" and wouldn't even need the A string.

The reality is, for most of use we like to be able to express ourselves ON TOP OF keeping time.

Tim

I personaly dig the BD, SN, FloorTom combo heh....

My kit when completed will be as follows...

22x16 Kick

16x16 Floor

12x10 TTom

13x5.5 Brass snare

18 or 16" crash/ride

16" Wuhan POS china

14" Zildjian A custom Fast Crash

14" Paiste hats

12" Wuhan POS china

10" Zildjian A custom splash

10" Zildjian Bell

Single Kitchen Sink (No {censored})

Various Crafted metal instruments...

Cuzzz they are sooo much fun!!

I came from a drum corps background and ended up playing in several bands where I was doing a WHOLE lot of tom work a'la King Crimson. Different flavors for different songs. Some stuff required low, punchy rumbling. Some stuff needed the snap that 6, 8 and 10 inch toms can only get.

Sure I could have played straight beats on a 4 piece kit, but where's the fun in that????

I only like big kits if they're natural. And if the nipples are a little too big.

No wait, that's big tits! My mistake.

I prefer small drum kits. My job is to play the song, not the drums. And too many drums doesn't help the urge to reach out and hit the really tiny one at least once, to justify dragging it along. And the biggest floor tom has to be hit even more often, since it's heavier and was more effort to lug around.

Songwriters like my playing because I suss out the song first, I don't step on toes, I keep it simple and I make it swing. Mission accomplished.

I get the gig over guys way better than me technically. Way better. They're better at playing the drums but not at playing the songs. Songwriters rarely add drum solos (because I guess, you know what happens when the drums stop).

I could play the same thing with 3 drums or 8, but I remain clear on my goals with a smaller kit. And I am not just keeping time. I am setting the groove and it's only as fat as my snare and bass drum make it. And even in a fast song, I have a fat groove. One lonely tom, but a fat groove.

Personally, my ideal setup consists of as few pieces as possible. However, I have a fetish for different sounds, so I have a tendency to buy too many pieces...I'm sure many of us have the same problem. Right now I have two complete sets of cymbals (one Paiste 3000 [more general], one Sabian Signature [Calhoun, Glennie, and DeJohnette--more eclectic]), and I'm still dying to put together a set of Paiste Sound Creations [way cool] and a set of Paiste Traditionals [way retro]. I play different sets depending on my mood. As you can tell, I'm a big Paiste fan, but I do love those Sabian Sig's (not a big fan of the rest of the Sabian line).

As far as drums go, I'm partial to Yamaha, but I can't decide betweem the Maple Custom Absolute and the Beech Custom (the original ones) drums, so I have some of both. My setup (when it's finished) will include two bass drums (an 18x14 MCA and a 22x16 BC, but not used at the same time in the kit), three snares (a 14x4 MCA, the 12" Erskine, and the 10" Erskine--the Erskines double as high toms), and a couple of Beech Toms (a 12x10 and a 14x12). I may even throw in a floor tom, but probably not--those toms can get really low and still sound good. The BC's are getting really hard to find, since Yamaha disc'd them a couple of years ago now. I'm looking mostly for the Apple, Pear, and Lime finishes, and in the MCA, it's Vintage all the way.

Of course, using all of these at once is impractical, but as I like to play both rock and jazz, I can have a very flexible setup with these pieces. My fav setup is the 18x14 bass, the 14x4 snare, one of the two smaller snares, and the two BC rack toms with the Sabian Signature cymbals.

(edit) Oh yeah, that doesn't even get into the accessory perc. like LP Jam Blocks, etc.

(edit #2) and Yamaha Vintage wooden hoops all around!

you haven't heard many "real" bassists then, have you? whether I'm playing a 4-5 or 6 string bass..I use them all, but I'm playing for the song.... I'll try to make the groove a mile wide,,, so the guitarist and other players can't {censored} it up....the exception being the drummer,,,a drummer who can't play "for the song" kills it every time...

I LIKE playing my 28" bass/snare kit (eventually I want to add an 18" mahagony floor tom to it).... it gets the job done very well, and playing it always reminds me of how important it is to know how to properly play the snare... many so called drummers never bother to really learn to play their snare drum... if space is really tight, I'll take just the HH and ONE crash/ride...

having a larger kit is like being an artist and having more colors to use to create art....a true artist would never use them all at once, all the time....

my "large" kit is a basic 22/13/16 and a snare, with the addition of 3 Tombeks...and the usual cymbals(for me), 4 crashes, 1 or 2 rides...and percussion goodies...

so,, like anything else musical,,, it's never the gear, but the player, that either makes it work or not.. there are just so many folks out there with musical instruments that don't have a clue about what real musicianship IS.......

MOOSBROS said:

"a drummer who can't play "for the song" kills it every time... "

and "it's never the gear, but the player, that either makes it work or not.."

And I say "bravo". I agree completely.

Originally posted by MoosBros you haven't heard many "real" bassists then, have you? whether I'm playing a 4-5 or 6 string bass..I use them all, but I'm playing for the song.... I'll try to make the groove a mile wide,,, so the guitarist and other players can't {censored} it up....the exception being the drummer,,,a drummer who can't play "for the song" kills it every time... I LIKE playing my 28" bass/snare kit (eventually I want to add an 18" mahagony floor tom to it).... it gets the job done very well, and playing it always reminds me of how important it is to know how to properly play the snare... many so called drummers never bother to really learn to play their snare drum... if space is really tight, I'll take just the HH and ONE crash/ride... having a larger kit is like being an artist and having more colors to use to create art....a true artist would never use them all at once, all the time.... my "large" kit is a basic 22/13/16 and a snare, with the addition of 3 Tombeks...and the usual cymbals(for me), 4 crashes, 1 or 2 rides...and percussion goodies... so,, like anything else musical,,, it's never the gear, but the player, that either makes it work or not.. there are just so many folks out there with musical instruments that don't have a clue about what real musicianship IS.......

Of course I have. My younger brother, Dan Brown, is one of the top bass players in the world. Last year he opened for Wilco for 3 months, he regularly travels as a hired hand, and he made David Briggs, the Producer for Neil Young go "God Damn! You're amazing!" (Briggs produced my brother's former band , Royal Trux, CD [Thank You]on Virgin Records.)

My question was rhetorical.

The Majority of bass players simply play the root, and that would not require more than 1 string.

My own bass player is a lead guitarist playing bass. He plays it with a pick. He is both the lead guitarist and the bass player....it's been one of the drawbacks of playing in a band with him...most guitar players can't deal with the fact that Mick plays the way he plays. Generally, we just choose to have a Rhythm guitarist because of that issue.

He uses custom made basses these days (even though we're looking for a Villette-Citron 8 string...but the cheapest I've seen was about $5,000 used.), and the strings are the same width as 4 guitar strings-since he plays with a pick, he doesn't want them as far apart as a standard bass....even though he also has been known to break out the Ric's on occaision. He is like Chris Squire meets composer Richard Wagner.... we always claimed to be Wagner's Bastard heavy metal children...

Tim

I keep hearing "I play for the song" bla bla "I dont get in the way of the song" bla bla... so I play the smallest kit possible.

Thats all fine and good but the way you "little kit guys" lol always say stuff like that always seems to sound condescending to us "monster kit guys"

Some of us might not enjoy playing overly simplified music. I mean there is music out there that requires a more aggressive/out front or even busy style of drumming.

Say you are playing a Latin song.. are you really serving a Latin song by brining your 2 piece Bass/Snare set... or should you really have some timbales/a bunch of toms/and a mess of percussion sounds..... same could be said for Metal and Prog Rock.

All I am saying is there are musical styles out there where a drummer serving the song means a {censored} load more than hiding in a dark corner of the stage trying not to be noticed going boom tap boom boom tap and just being an after thought in the music.

Rant over.. Hope this dosent start a flame war

Bery bad. Now bass solo starts.....

In the "Math-tubatory" band stuff, we had a system where the general framework was there, then everybody would suggest bits and pieces: "Do some tom stuff over this part." "Try doing a harmony off of what the rhythm guitar is doing." "Rock bottom bass through here." We had a lot of fun, and that was the point.

Note the difference in album sales and size of venues played between Dream Theater and Foo Fighters. Do both bands have fun writing and playing? Of course. Does the "lack" of popularity mean that Dream Theater are wrong for doing what they do? Does the simplicity of Foo Fighter's music mean that they're not worthy of the popularity they enjoy? It's all relative. If you play what the music requires, you're doing it right. If you don't, you will indeed lose the gig to someone esle.

It's not the size of the kit, it's using it appropriately.

"All I am saying is there are musical styles out there where a drummer serving the song means a {censored} load more than hiding in a dark corner of the stage trying not to be noticed going boom tap boom boom tap and just being an after thought in the music."

I set up in the front line, between the bass and guitarist/singer, so I'm not hiding. That's a pretty large assumption based on my desire to find the essence of the song and bring it out.

And naturally you have to use what the song asks for. If it's Latin, then you play a Latin kit. Isn't that what playing for the song means? Wouldn't using a Latin set be a dis-service to a psycho-billy song, as well? Duh.

For me, a smaller kit is less distracting. That's all. My preference. I don't think you're showboating if you use a big kit. I just don't want to drag one around my own self.

And expressing an opinion doesn't start a flame war, but painting such a wrong image when you have no clue who I am or what I do is kind of, well, incorrect.