Odd time for jazz!!

Hello and welcome,

So I've getting more into jazz, actually a lot more, and of course I'm loving it. But I have a question: If the quarter note is basically broken into two eighth notes, the trip and let of the triplet, what would an odder time, such as 5/8 for example, be broken into? An where would the downbeat of the measure following a 5/8 fall? Where the 6th 8 would fall if there was one? This has had me puzzled for a while now because the 8th note is not even so how can one split it in half? Also, can you recomend any tunes in odd times? Thanks much

Is there any way you could draw out your question or something, or use a little diagram? I'm good with rhythms, but I have absolutely no idea what you're saying...

Yes, let me try to clarify. If this still doesn't make sense, tell me the unclear part and I'll try to clear it up.

1. Two 8th notes in swing are play as the first and last notes of a triplet (the trip and let if you vocalize "trip-pol-let")

2.So a 4/4 bar of 8th notes would look something like this:

1 let2 let3 let4 let

3. So if we get rid of the last "let" we have a bar of 7/8. Like this:

1 let2 let3 let4

4. But where does the downbeat of the next measure fall? If it fell where the last part of the triplet of beat 4 (which really is the 8th 8th note of the measure, if that makes sense) would be, two measures of 8th notes in 7/8 swing would look like this:

1 let2 let3 let4 | 1pol 2pol 3pol 4 | 1 let2

Well my brothers explaining as simple as possible,there are three timing counts, on time,odd time and syncopation,in a 4/4 time (for e.g.) playing the 1,and 3 would be on time,playing 2,and 4 would be odd time and something between those spaces would be syncopation.

Okay, I think I get your question. Here's how I swing 5 and 7, respectively. Here's how I count. Each number represents the beat's downbeat, and the "a" represents the end of the triplett. A "-" would mean the middle part of the triplet. So, 4/4 swing would be:

1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a

Swing in 5/8

1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a --a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a --a

or

1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5 - a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5 - a

Swing in 7/8

1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a --a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a --a

or

1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a 7 - a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a 7 - a

Hope that helps some. That's how I do it so that you still have a solid downbeat. Of course, a lot jazz drummers will just keep a 4/4 ride pattern go and let their snare and kick do the odd beats, which is really hard, but really fun

Cheers!

-Brandon

Originally posted by 88Fingers Okay, I think I get your question. Here's how I swing 5 and 7, respectively. Here's how I count. Each number represents the beat's downbeat, and the "a" represents the end of the triplett. A "-" would mean the middle part of the triplet. So, 4/4 swing would be: 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a Swing in 5/8 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a --a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a --a or 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5 - a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5 - a Swing in 7/8 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a --a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a --a or 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a 7 - a || 1- - 2 - a 3- - 4 - a 5- - 6 - a 7 - a Hope that helps some. That's how I do it so that you still have a solid downbeat. Of course, a lot jazz drummers will just keep a 4/4 ride pattern go and let their snare and kick do the odd beats, which is really hard, but really fun Cheers! -Brandon

No, your swinging in 5/4 and 7/4. You have seven downbeats to a measure not seven 8th notes to a measure. 7/8 should end right on 4 with no "a" following it.

It really just depends on how you count and who you're playing with.

Sorry I couldn't help.

No, you just have to realize that 5/4 and 7/4 are the same thing as 5/8 and 7/8, just with a different note value per beat.

You're counting all his downbeats as quarters. That makes them 5/4 and 7/4. If they're eighth notes, they're 5/8 and 7/8. There's not much way to specify note value without written music.

Either way, 88 - I understood it fine.

Wade

Originally posted by DarthWader No, you just have to realize that 5/4 and 7/4 are the same thing as 5/8 and 7/8, just with a different note value per beat. You're counting all his downbeats as quarters. That makes them 5/4 and 7/4. If they're eighth notes, they're 5/8 and 7/8. There's not much way to specify note value without written music. Either way, 88 - I understood it fine. Wade

Yes very true. But, according to that, a quarter note would have 6 beats to it, making it simple to cut it in half only play one 8th note. But what if there are only three beats to the quarter note? How do you cut that up? That is what my question is trying to get at.

elmo17, an 8th note could be broken in to two 16th notes,so 5/8 would be equal to 10/16.A note which is not place in the notation is mute.Also I want to remind you that a time signature is just a guiding for the concept of timing,the real feeling of the musical frase is going to be in relation of how many of those notes are market to be play,how many are going to be silence and any higher notes(in this case 16th or 32nd) which could be place in those time signatures.(if need of more explainig come forward.