Best way to quiet things down?

I'd like to think I can play pretty soft when needed, but I'm always looking for better ways, so I figure what better place to ask than here, right? We're playing a lot of shows, some in big places, some in small places. The big places aren't a problem (nobody cares how loud you're playing on an amphitheater-type stage). The small dive bars and clubs can be, though. I always think we're too loud -- part of that is because I'm a foot away from the drums, of course, but I know that when I go to a bar, I'd love it if I could hear a live band that wasn't so loud I couldn't talk to the people around me.

I'm playing 7A hickory sticks, and using IEMs and a Buttkicker so I don't have any monitors making noise. The main problems are, as always, the cymbals and the snare drum. The way I see it, I've got four options.

1: Electronic drum kit. The biggest problem here is that something at a giggable level is going to cost more than I'm willing to spend. I have an Alesis DM5 kit (not the Pro), one of those kits with a DM5 brain and rubber pads... but I wouldn't trust playing a show with it. I've got to bring it to a gig on Monday where they don't want drums present, but with this it's small enough and can be turned down so they're willing to give it a shot.

2: Turn my "beater kit" into an electronic kit either by using mesh heads and external triggers, or by building internal triggers into the kit (kinda like the V-drum type things use -- a crossbar with a piezo trigger and foam over it, like you'll find on any custom e-Drum DIY forum). This means I could bring my "real" kit out for big shows, and my beater DIY e-kit out to the smaller ones. The problem here is with cymbals -- they'll still be loud as hell and they're the main culprit.

3: Get a big ol' drum shield in front of the drums. They're heavy, though. I could probably assemble one relatively cheap (after all they're pretty much just plexi and hinges), but carrying around one thick enough to make a difference is gonna suck. It also really isolates you up there. The sound isn't a huge concern because we have a banner behind us to soak up a bit of the reflection, and I'm using noise-cancelling in-ears.

4: Build a drum riser. This wouldn't help much but it would get the cymbals another 16" or so into the air, which would mean they're coming through the vocal mics a lot less. Combined with a short plexi shield, it seems like that would block out a lot of sound. Added bonus is that I want to build one anyway for general stage appearance, so it's something I might be doing anyway. Without the shield, though, I'm not 100% sure it'll do anything noticeable to the sound. I could put a really thick carpet/mat on the top surface to help with some of the sound reflection, but again, don't think that's a big deal.

I've got my snare tuned really high, which I don't think cuts through as much (which is a good thing to me, I mic it and we can adjust it that way). My toms are shallow depth to help with their volume (12x9 and 16x14). Kick isn't an issue because that's always got to be mic'ed anyway, we play stuff people want to dance to (or we hope they do) and having a prominent kick drum seems to always help that. Like I said, it's mostly the hats and crashes.

Any other opinions? Obviously "play lighter" is a factor, and I do that, but much like any other musician on stage, the less sound coming off that stage, the better the band is going to sound IMO.

buy some small drums.

I got a Tama Stagestar kit (with 18" kick) for $150 on Craigslist.

they aren't as loud. get some hot rods and you're all set.

I'm thinking electronics are an overcomplicated and expensive solution to a one-faceted problem.

oh yeah, don't hit as hard.

Well, I'm guessing that the hi-hats and crashes on that Stagestar kit are gonna be almost as loud, if not exactly as loud, as the hi-hats and crashes on my current Gretsch. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. But it was emphasized several times in that first post that the main offenders are the hats, crashes, and the snare. Small drums aren't gonna fix that problem. Hot rods will help, but again, a cymbal will only crash so quiet, and hats that are halfway between closed and open are always gonna produce a not insignificant amount of sound.

Hot Rods are the way to go, I think, for this particular problem. I use at home for quiet practice, and they do a pretty good job.

I'll pick up a set on Monday then and give them a shot. From what I'd read, they weren't a huge help on loud things such as crash cymbals. I assume they're going to drastically alter the tone of everything they hit, as well. And probably break in half the first time I unconsciously attempt to whack a Zil-Bel, since even the cheap Guitar Center sticks can't seem to handle that too often.

I used Hot Rods on a recent gig and yes they do change the tone a lot but they also quiet things down more than any other one thing will for an accoustic kit. Getting intricate hits and taps becomes more of a challenge, so much so that I consider breaking out the electric kit for such venues since I want those subtle sounds in the music. For straight up tunes that I just want quieter the Rods work just fine.

I think Hof had it right: smaller drums played softer. Rods are fine for certain things, but there are a lot of things thay can't do.

This may be off the wall, since I don't know what you use, but I'd also recommend single-ply coated heads. In my experience it takes a certain amount of force to make a 2-ply head respond and sound good, while single-ply coated heads respond well when played soft and maintain good tone, too. Just a thought.

I'll give you another off the wall idea (who didn't know that)! Cymbal wash is a problem as you said. Take a piece of piano damper felt (the kind that goes under the hammers). They used to sell it in strips about 4" wide by however long. Measure the size of your cymbal bell...let's just hypothetically say 4" round. Cut yourself out 2 squares. Place them directly center of themselves. Take a knife and cut a slit in the center about 1" in the shape of an X. Remove your cymbal from the stand, shove the felt down over the screw and the cymbal sleeve. Place the cymbal back on with the felt touching the cymbal. You could also secure it to the cymbals with a small piece of duct tape if you want it held against the cymbal.

Think of the cymbal a like a lake with ripples. When you strike it, the impact point sends reverbaration down from the edge to the center and then back again, But now, the attack is great, it goes down the to the center and hits a muffler of sorts, comes back to the edge at a less intensity (still haveing good charcteristics and overtones, but then heads back to the center for another muffling dose. You still get the big initial sound but then it dies quicker. (I used to use this technique in a bar lounge trio and it does help cause the wash is being removed, without killing the original sound...works in the studio as well)

And you again thought I was gonna tell you about "bar napkins" didn't ya!

I played a simple kit with a mostly bluegrass/acoustic band for several years.

Heres how I solved my volume issues. My kit was an old gretsch snare, a small 18" used inexpensive tama kick drum with one mounted 10" tom, some Zilz.A hats and one 18" crash/ride.

Snare: Heres how I toned down my old gretsch. Those practice pads with the thick rubber center and the thin rubber edge. Cut out the thick center, leaving an aprox 2" wide thin rubber ring same size as the snare head. Start cutting out a section till you get the effect you want. I wound up with a peice a little less than 1/2 the diameter of the drum. Still good response w/ just the right volume. It was heavy enough & just layed there on the rim of the snare closest to me. No need for any tape or anything.

Cymbals: never had this prob, but then I pretty much always used hot rods or brushes. For a more regular sound, I used light nylon tipped sticks. The nylon tips seemed to be a little more focused and not so obnoxious.

I like the felt idea, think it would work really well.

I used various permutations of these options for a couple years and was able to produce little to no stage volume. It definitely gives the most control over how much ambient noise you're producing, strike-wise. However, I tired of the E-cymbals pretty early on. As I reintegrated acoustic cymbals back into the kit, other elements crept back in as well. I tried to keep the acoustic snare and bass quiet by dampening them, since I was triggering from them feel was more important than the actual tone from the drum (they weren't miked)

I use a hybrid setup now, leaning more toward acoustics.

Your DIY conversion kit is a pretty good idea. The only option I can think of to eliminate cymbal noise would be the triggers that are actual metal cymbals, dampened with a layer of gel-like material underneath. But then you've got to trigger cymbal samples and most modules still fall short in that area.

Never never duct tape. Never. Use gaff tape. It costs 6 times more than duct tape and is worth every penny.

no more sticky degraded duct tape adhesive!!!

^ I second that emotion. Gaffer's tape leaves no residue on most surfaces. And it looks cooler besides.

And--if you ever need to control a washy cymbal nothing beats it. I know it's heresy, but I have a 60s-era Zildjian ride that is otherwise superb, but with the wash cut down with two strategically placed 4" strips of gaffer's tape. On the bottom, of course!

Ya see, I learn something every day. I had never heard of gaffers tape. I imagine stage lighting companies sell this right? I'll have to give it a whirl...

I get mine at GC.

You'll never use duct tape again (except on your ducts.)

Tear of Aqua?

bile.

Ah yes...heartburn city for us older folk...pass the tummy tum tums...(that was bad but what do you expect on short notice)