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ROLAND TD 20 vs.Classic acoustic drums


vasilis1979

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I am out of energy for this topic, but I will give you the response of a "gigging" drummer. If you can have both great. If you have neighbors or noise will be an issue TD-20. If you can have only one and noise is no concern get a killer DW, Starclassic, GMS etc.........I have both and I can tell you that no amount of technology available right now is like playing the "real thing". So my opinion is clear....NO ELECTRICS SHOULD EVER TAKE THE PLACE OF WOOD AND LACQUER!!! They do serve good purpose though. The other option is to contact Johnny Nobody for the best electric drums in the world.:thu: That last part is a HC inside joke.

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I like to call them home trainers. ;)

 

At the risk of sounding like a whino, i have a few thoughts about current e-drum modules. It won't change a thing, but maybe it's worth saying anyway.

 

I've looked around and played almost all of the e-drum kits/modules worth mentioning that are on the market today and all of them sounded very disapointing. Especially after having read the sales talk in Rolands catalogue/brochure.

 

If you ever tried some of them, it will be obvious that most computer drum software, which is nearly all sample based, is far superior to any of the drum modules on the market. An hardware drum module however is just as much software driven as your home computer. Which leads to believe it should be perfectly possible to create a module that generates sounds from a sample based source instead of an electronic modeling source and so creating drum sounds that sound incredibly realistic. This should be perfectly possible.

This makes me wonder why e-drum companies are still messing around with synthesis generated drum sounds when it's clear it's not yielding great results.

 

The answer to this is pure marketing. They know it's possible, but it's more profitable to sell every fad as incredibly realistic sounding and to make people upgrade their gear every three or four years because its sounds will be outdated. That's for a 3000+Eur. module.

 

Imagine this: DFH, or Native Instruments Battery or any other super realistic drum software maker decides to gather a team of researchers and engineers to create a hardware module driving their software. That would blow Roland out of the water right quick.

 

Sorry if i sound incredibly boring, bit this is sort of the train of thought i went through while searching for the right e-kit for myself.

The best option for realistic drum emulation i've found is to take a kit and module with enough ins and outs to suit your number of drums and cymbals, and to send it to a good software drum module on your computer.

 

Not really answering the original question maybe, but maybe helpful anyway i hope.

 

WD

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TD-20 sounds WAY better than DFH. Period.

 

As far as the feel of playing, nothing beats the acoustic kit. Live, I prefer my acoustic kit but there are settings where the e-kit is better. In the studio, I start with the acoustic kit but there are times where the e-kit or portions of the e-kit will be better but not in the cymbal category. Nothing beats real cymbals.

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no comparison. even a crappy acoustic kit is more expressive and sounds sounds better than electronic, even in the hands of a basic player like me (I'm a guitarist and writer mostly) but I have the Roland set in my home studio for convenience

 

when I get on a real kit its like makin love bareback after a long spell of doing it with protection

 

:idea:

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I love my TD-20 kit. I use it for practice and recording.


I prefer the real deal, acoustic for live, nothing like it. They both are valid, it just depends on what you want to accomplish.

 

 

+1

 

I'm in the exact same boat. Practice (at home) and recording (with my computer) = TD-20 all the way.

 

Gigging, practicing with the band (at the jam space) and recording (at the jam space) = acoustic set.

 

The TD-20 is pretty forgiving if you have bad technique, just be aware. You'll sound like a much better drummer than you actually are. (at least this has been my experience).

 

YMMV.

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I also use a TD-6 for recording work, and I still maintain that if you take the time to tweak the samples, you can get a sound that's 85% there. With a TD-20, I'd venture to say that you could get 95% there.....meaning 95% of the way towards a good acoustic drum sound.

 

...but like I said, you have to spend the time to tweak, tweak and tweak some more....

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the DW is right! Take the time to tweak your module (it's not great out of the box but has amazing potential) or purchase custom kits like Vexpressions.

I love my E-kit and it always sounds great. I also love my acoustics and Bosphorus cymbals!

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It goes both ways. I do way more tweaks with an acoustic recording than with a TD-20 recording as will most recording engineers. Not I'm a pro at recording or drumming but I have enough experience at both. Keep in mind that many acoustic recordings still include samples to balance things out. The thing about e-kit recording is consistency, it will sound the same no matter what and once you have a sound dialed in that you like, it saves a lot of time in the recording session, especially mixing. However, if you step into the studio to experiment, go with the acoustic. It also depends on the quality of the studio. Someone recording in their bedroom with cheap mics will likely get a better sound from the e-kit due to no drawback from room acoustics, mic quality, tuning, etc. In a good studio with good mics, good tuning, and a good drummer, it would allow for the acoustic kit.

 

There is no right or wrong answer, just preference. In most of my recordings I use both. I almost always use a electronic kick sound as I have one that I really like and it works on a lot of what I do. Then I have a few others when the main kick sound isn't ideal. Some songs I've done with electric toms, depending on what sound I'm after. Snare and cymbals are acoustic, I'll go the electric snare if I absolutely have to but I always start with real one.

 

As far as live performance and practice go, many like the e-kit since there it no tuning or head replacement on a consistent basis, hence lower operating cost and less operator knowledge required, just play. This is of course a major taboo to serious and/or old school players who demand that every drummer know how to tune, just like it's incomprehensible to me that people can have a drivers license and can't drive a stick.

 

Personally, I only use my e-kit in the studio and when necessary. I haven't used it a live performance in over 2 years and that was a one time deal for volume only. But e-kits do have their place and they are the source of more drums sounds on recordings than you may realize.

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My only true heartburn with e-kit are the triggers. The cymbal pads especially. I find it too easy to mistrigger, or over speed them. I watched the Thomas Lang Roland video, and it's obvious the drums mistrigger. They probably pulled that videos because it showed so many shortcomings of e-kit transducers.

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My only true heartburn with e-kit are the triggers. The cymbal pads especially. I find it too easy to mistrigger, or over speed them. I watched the Thomas Lang Roland video, and it's obvious the drums mistrigger. They probably pulled that videos because it showed so many shortcomings of e-kit transducers.

 

 

This where much of the tweaking comes into play. Adjusting the trigger threshold, retrigger cancel, etc to get it "just right"

 

Solely for looks I put a 22" pdp bass drum in place of my stock bass drum pad and put a mesh head on it to keep it quiet. Even using a Roland kick trigger, it took days of playing and adjusting and playing and tweaking and playing some more, just to get it right. Now its perfect for me though and I haven't had any problems. That said, a friend of mine who kicks much harder than I do, finds the bass drum is a triggering nightmare, and curses my kit. So you really have to adjust things to match your playing.

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my .02, I played a Tama Superstar kit for many years (burned in a fire) and I really loved that kit....then went to e-drums when I stopped playing in the clubs. I bought the td20 kit when it came out, mostly for playing in church and home. I have used it in several one off small club gigs and it works great in the small clubs where volume is the issue. I have spent a lot of time tweaking the triggers and use the vexpressionsltd kits and have no complaints about the sounds.

 

bottom line for me, if I still played in big clubs a great acoustic kit cannot be beat, but heads, sticks, broken cymbals, etc add up

 

For what I do now, I don't think I would go back, I like the sounds from my td20 setup, I now have a PDP kit that I converted to e-drums and a lot of people cannot tell the drums are not acoustic (except for the Roland cymbals), the sound is that close now.........

 

it all comes down to what you plan on doing with your kit. I can take my td20 set into any venue, plug into the pa and they sound great.

When I played the Tama's it was set up kit, sometimes have to re-tune to the room, set the mics, tweak mics, etc. but I do miss playing on that kit..................................................................................................

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my .02, I played a Tama Superstar kit for many years (burned in a fire) and I really loved that kit....

t..................................................................................................

 

 

 

Since you say "many years", I can only assume you refer to the original superstars, not the modern versions. Did any pics survive of that kit?

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It was the orginal set, found them in a pawn shop and paid $800 for 2 24" , 13, 14, and 16 toms, with stands etc. Cherry wine and all they needed were new heads. I don't think I have any pictures left, but I will look, this was before digital cameras existed. At one point I had a full cage and like 5 crash cymbals, looked really impressive........

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It was the orginal set, found them in a pawn shop and paid $800 for 2 24" , 13, 14, and 16 toms, with stands etc. Cherry wine and all they needed were new heads. I don't think I have any pictures left, but I will look, this was before digital cameras existed. At one point I had a full cage and like 5 crash cymbals, looked really impressive........

 

The superstars (late 70's) with Titan hardware was one of the first drum kits built "right" IMO.

 

I am not arguing the sound vs the classic 60's stuff.

 

But what tama did was make excellent shells, with excellent finishes and the best hardware of the day that didn't make huge holes in the side of the shells.

 

They were made at a time when Rogers and Pearl had huge 1" tubes sticking into the drums, and the rest of the industry made crappy hardware.

 

Tama influenced the entire industry to improve. I'd love to restore a set of the cherry or mahogany finished shells.

 

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I am out of energy for this topic, but I will give you the response of a "gigging" drummer. If you can have both great. If you have neighbors or noise will be an issue TD-20. If you can have only one and noise is no concern get a killer DW, Starclassic, GMS etc.........I have both and I can tell you that no amount of technology available right now is like playing the "real thing". So my opinion is clear....NO ELECTRICS SHOULD EVER TAKE THE PLACE OF WOOD AND LACQUER!!! They do serve good purpose though. The other option is to contact Johnny Nobody for the best electric drums in the world.
:thu:
That last part is a HC inside joke.

 

No jokeing. If you knew the difference, you wouldnt need pads or plain acoustic, just ELECTRIC DRUMS. Do the math. Best of both worlds + what your never heard or saw or was able to do before ! ELECTRIC DRUMS dont take the place of acoustics, they allow electronics to inhibit the acoustic world.

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