Was Buddy Rich really this nice?

I know a couple of guys who knew and/or played for Buddy, they all say he could be a prince, instinctively performing many acts of kindness that no one will ever know about.

The bus tapes are but one side of the man, and though I don't care much for it I understand the approach he was taking in those instances. I've had teachers who were utterly old school, who believed that what young musicians--particularly those who weren't giving the music their all--needed most was a swift kick in the ass. I don't use that technique myself--times have changed--but it was a standard method of motivation at one time!

You think the Buddy tapes are bad, I could tell you stories from the classical world that would make Buddy's bus tapes look like a picnic.

There was much more to Buddy than the bus tapes, and by many accounts from those who knew him, much more positive than we generally hear about.

If half the music world had the passion that Buddy had to perform to a high level, than the tapes would not even be an issue worth mentioning.

It really broke his heart that people would go through the motions on stage just for a paycheck. He wanted like minded people to play with him, ones that wanted to take it to a higher level. The problem was that, to travel with a band of that size, the expense was large, and you often had to hire teenagers, and 1950's, 60's, 70's or whenever, teens could often be immature, and their work ethic wasn't even developed yet. Buddy came from a background of diligence, and hard work. He could be brash, but what is wrong with wanting the best out of your employees. I bet most of those guys that got the stinging end of his tongue, ended up becoming top notch players. Excellence often breeds excellence. Piss or get off the pot!!!

So if you were one of those young musicians you would expect to be yelled at like that? Like what was heard on those tapes? I say it was a sign of the times and those times are long gone.

would the guy that recorded that stuff of had the guts to show Buddy to his face?

if Buddy was alive today would those tapes be played on the net?

i'll bet not

it was very cowardly what this guy did

a faceless coward

No, but it happened in those days, and if you think it was only BR you've got another thing coming. Meanwhile, nobody died. And some guys found some motivation and, years later, I wouldn't be surprised that many of them were glad they got their ass kicked by BR.

Those who haven't experienced this form of "instruction" will have to take it on faith that it was often practiced by otherwise perfectly nice people, and with the best of intentions.

Good points. My point, if it was such a good motivational tool, why isn't it used today? or is it still being used and I just don't see it?

I guess for some musicians just being able to say yeah I played with (drop famous artist name here), is worth dealing with this type of motivation.

Well, having been through BOOT CAMP twice, I can say for a fact that THIS METHOD OF MOTIVATION is currently being used as we speak. It molded a lot of slack and idle nobodies into pure efficient soldiers that keep us safe to this day. I am sick and tired of this {censored} footing around that all the tree huggers and liberal nancyboys use when trying to motivate the youth of today. THE ONLY THING missing from yesteryears to todays motivational methods is the pure ability to kick ass when needed. Time outs and such have no effect on a young persons ability to focus and get the job done. A square kick in the ass works wonders. By doing this tirade, Buddy weeded out the slackers that had hope, from the ones that didn't deserve to be on the stage with the greatest of all time. These guys did one of two things after a chewing out like that..... Either they got better (much better) , or they got lost. Anyone who is a professional musician should try to be the best each and every time they are in front of people. Everyone makes mistakes but there is a difference between a missed note, and a slack attitude. If he was paying for excellence, he made sure he got it. They should have paid him for the life lessons if you ask me.

(wah wah, Buddy yelled at me, where's my dumtit to suck on) If they didn't like it, quit and get another job. If you were on his team, he told you what he expected. Give it , or go home, but dont make a fool out of him with a half assed performance.

BR always had a big ego and was a feisty guy. But the temper seemed to get worse as he got older. I wonder if the brain tumor he was finally diagnosed with played a part in his outbursts. If so, it would be unfair to judge his life and career on those later outbursts. RIP Buddy.

+1- I absolutly agree, and I don't believe I've ever read this point on previous threads.

Although, I also completly agree with the swift kick in the ass point. Time outs make for pussies- period. I see/hear lazy whimpy behavior on a daily basis from the under

25 age group. Now, before all of you under 25 rip me for being an "Old" f*ck, I do know there are some that know how to function as a productive member of society, but there are more babies out there then men.

Nuff said. Later

I agree.

We read or hear one piece of a soundbyte and tend to make judgements about someone's whole life. That ain't fair. There's not one person here who can honestly say they've ALWAYS been on their best behavior. "he who casts the first stone ... " that sort of thing, nahmeen?

Scroll down to "On a Positive Note".

Well it works for the army, it must be good for musicians, school age children, pizza delivery drivers and librarians.

Ask any former boot camp drill sergeant or company commander. It's not motivation. It's brain washing. They mentally break you down and shock you into doing exactly as you are told. No second guessing. While it works it's purpose in the military, it's pretty much useless in all other matters.

What Buddy did on those tapes was not the same thing.

Blah blah blah, another bleeding heart, need a plush teddy with that whine?

Jesus, no one seems to be able to take a good old fashioned telling off these days without whining about human rights , blah blah blah.

There's a reason this continent is in the shape its in. THE COURTS, THE LAWYERS, THE PARENTS, AND THE BLEEDING HEARTS. If discipline can't be instilled, via fear, which is what worked for decades and decades in this country, then how do you prey tell these snot nosed kids are supposed to get it?

Saying to little johnny....oh you are hurting mommies feelings, please dont misbehave? Its been proven as of late what kind of results that kind of thinking gets us. (driveby's, beatings, drop outs, illiterate children that cant read the writing on their high school diploma.) Parents and leaders have missed the boat by trying to be their kids friends and not parenting them. Its a lot harder to do what needs to be done, than try to win a popularity contest as favorite parent.

As far as my military time is concerned, I was not "brain washed" but given a good dose of much needed self respect and discipline.(which my broken home didn't provide me) I think each and every kid should be sent to boot camp at age 18 for a dose of what mommy and daddy didn't think they needed. A Boot in the ass. Buddy wasn't their mommy or daddy, he was their employer. He gave 200% every night, and demanded their best every night. Seems fair to me. If they didn't want to give it, why sign on? He made many of those guys road hardened, and gave them the work ethic that the pot smoking took from them. If I was told to go "kill the enemy" by a commander, I did it because I knew my country needed me to. Maybe more people need to be half as patriotic and we would be a lot better off.

And on a final note, the book that was penned by Mel Torme about Buddies life, stated that he became a LOT MORE MELLOW in his final years, not more violent. Mel knew him like a brother, and said having grandkids really took the stress off him, and made him see how great life can be.

Did you get it all outta your system? I feel like I was just party to an enema.

you might have been the contents

No. That was Geo Bush's demon seed. Use a condom next time.

The things Art Verdi says about Buddy Rich seems like he's nice to old friends and lashed out to his musicians but Art says they claimed to be a better musician when they left Buddy's band

At least he's not afraid of war or guns like Osama/Obama whatever the frigg his name is

Thankfully attitudes like the primitive washed up conservative fall in line and obey; never question; goose step to the beat; ones above are quickly falling into histories dust bin where they belong.

While I do think that sometimes people do need a kick in the ass to get motivated; psychology has definitely showed us there are FAR better ways of extracting good qualities from people. And the kind of motivation delivered by guys like Rich, Miles, and James Brown is really in the end not very effective. Sure it may have worked for a few guys but that doesn't justify it as a philosophy. And obviously Buddy wasn't an Asshole 24/7.

It is nothing more than brainwashing as cited above. And all the "bleeding heard" "whiney liberal" crap is nothing more than a conservative corporate media created backlash to a preceved threat to their control. Slavishly lapped up by people who feel like the whole world is out to get them. Paranoid "anti terrorist" patriotic types, whose sources of information are tightly controled and never questioned.

Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit.

Emma Goldman

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it

George Bernard Shaw

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. quote verified at snopes.com

Hermann Goering

The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Twain

I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.

James Baldwin

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Samuel Johnson

Sorry to turn this into the political forum but ignorrance posted WILL be responded too.

Jesus, the hippie tree lickers are crawling out of the woodwork now. More Borscht soundcreation? Da comrade

Yep...that's about as much as I expected as a comeback I hope your drumming is more interesting than your insults; I mean at LEAST come up with something interesting if all your going to do is insult me. I could then at least have SOME respect for you. As it stands now....well there is just....Nothing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way buddy treated his band for this very simple reason - nobody forced them to stay. As long as he didn't racially or sexually discriminate, he was entitled to say whatever the hell he wanted to say to his band, regardless of whether or not it is a good way to motivate. If they didn't like it they could leave. Plain and simple.

His type don't have a clue and never will. They're led around by their nose rings and they don't even realize it. He'll be the last to admit and realize that the things he's saying are exactly what politician's want him to say. They've created a liberal boogyman and brainwashed him into thinking that the liberals are the root cause of all of his, and everyone else's problems. Meanwhile... look who was in the wheelhouse the whole time? If he's off ranting about the liberal boogyman, he's not paying attention to the men behind the curtain. And that's just the way they like it.

Bravo polarnewfie! You've been lobotomized. Your spoon fed, detritus filled diatribes are as interesting as watching an old man take a {censored}. Get a life. Think for yourself for once. Instead of blaming a concept that is out of touch with reality [as in the vast majority of democrats aren't as liberal as you have been told they are], blame the people who've actually created the problems in the first place. Your [and my own] wonderful government.

Buddy was just passionate. If others weren't, then a tongue lashing doesn't hurt anyone. After all, it was HIS band and he worked many years as a sideman to reach that point.

Yep...that's about as much as I expected as a comeback I hope your drumming is more interesting than your insults; I mean at LEAST come up with something interesting if all your going to do is insult me. I could then at least have SOME respect for you. As it stands now....well there is just....Nothing.

I could give a crap if you respect me or not... REALLY. Do you think I am gonna stay awake at night and wish I could get some respect from some turd from an internet forum who has to quote other tree hugging granola crunchers? Big Deal!!! I could care less about your opinion, as you care about mine, all those hugs from your teachers and parents, and bosses must have been sweet. "You are such a good boy soundcreation!!! Keep it up!!!"