Acrolite vs. Supraphonic?

Is there a large difference in the sound between these two?

The supra is way more sensitive, and the acrolite has a larger tuning range.

gracias!

I think that's a statement totally dependent on the head and wire choice. The shell is made from the same material in the exact same dimensions. The acro has two less lugs and is not chrome plated. So how does having two less lugs and no chrome dictate to less sensitive?

I think if you take the two, put identical heads and wires on them and tune them the same, they'll sound awful damned close to one another. So close that most people probably wouldn't tell them apart. The acro carries a sort of stigma with it because it was always Ludwig's cheap snare, but in reality there were only two relatively minor differences.

I've always regarded the Acro as the "poor man's Supra."

I have always refereed to the supra as the poor mans black beauty...

Isn't the Supra just the same thing with chrome?

Supraphonic has 10-lugs

Acrolite has 8-lugs

If you watch Part 1 of my Care & Feeding of Drums, and explain some of the differences ... but for the most part, the differences are chrome plating and number of lugs.

I was recently at another drummer's studio, and I saw that he had an acrolite and supra. (Both were 5x14.) They had the exact same heads (top and bottom) and were tuned just about the same. (The supra was a tad higher.) To my ears, the acrolite had a little more "honk" or "bite" to it. (I know that is a poor description.) It wasn't just that the acro was a bit brighter, but it had a little more "metallic ring" in the residual note. Does that make any friggin' sense? Anyway, they were still very close, which surprised me since there is a substantial price difference.

I think I got mine to sound pretty damned close and I didn't have to try too hard to do it. I sometimes like a quality 8 lug snare. The 2 less lugs give the head some "breathing room", Even Elvin Jones said that he thought all that hype about 10 lugs was a bunch of mumbo jumbo. 8 lugged snare breathe and sound more organic to his ears. Very versatile. So I say its more a matter of personal tastes to stigma versus price point. Some just wont use an acrolite because it seems "lesser" than they are. I just dont give a crap as long as the snare sounds as good as it can sound. Variety is the spice of life. I have heard Acro's sound great in the studio, sort of a built in EQ in those, just seem to be more controlled for some reason.

Thanks! I'm just looking for a metal snare for my studio kit, and it seems I can find a Acro pretty cheap compared to a Supra.

By all means get both. But , for starting out a studio, and if a limited budget is on the books, I'd say an Acro is on the menu for starters. I have a 5" of both, but have to confess to using my 6.5 x 14 supra for damned near everything these days. (just because I like the tone of a deeper drum lately)

But no studio would be "undergunned" with just an Acro on the kit. You can extract a lot of sound out of one of those. Tuning skills of course are a must, as 8 lugs can be a little less precise and a slightly better ear is needed.

Lets get some terminology correct.

Supraphonic: A shell. Specifically, a seamless spun shell made by ludwig out of a variety of materials. Mainly steel or aluminum, or "Luddalloy", which is steel and aluminum. Could also be bronze, brass or copper.

LM400: 10 lug snare drum with a 5x14 supraphonic shell. Can be found in all metal types. Normally comes with imperial style lugs, and has a chrome finish. If it is an older shell with chrome over aluminum, or chrome over Luddalloy, it is likely to have flaking chrome. The COB shells have less chrome rash. Available with P70, P71, P83, P85 or P86 snares.

LM402: Same as LM400, except with a 6.5x14 supraphonic shell.

Acrolite: 8 lug snare drum with a 5x14 supraphonic shell. Normally comes with student style lugs and no finish, just bare metal. Can be found in aluminum or Luddalloy only. Available with P83 or P85 snares.

Blackrolite: Same as acrolite, but newer, comes in 5x14 size and 6.5x14 size. Has black galaxy style finish.

Black Beauty: Same as LM400/LM402, except it is finished with black nickel. Normally found with a brass shell. Available with imperial or tube lugs. Many of the black beauties have custom engraving on the shell.

COB: Chrome over brass.

BOB: Brass on Brass. (Refers to a Black Beauty that has brass lugs with a black nickel chrome over brass shell.)

P70: Supersensitive strainer

P71: Newer Supersensitive strainer

P83: Standard strainer

P85: Newer standard strainer

P86: Millenium style snare strainer

As they used to say in the Addams Family..."thank you Thing!":thu:

Just to be clear, in my post I was talking about the Ludwig 400 and the Ludwig Acrolite.

Hello gentlemen,

Thank you for a great summary, and I hoped to post a quick question to you on the subject of Ludwig snares:

I am currently planning to buy a late 70's TAMA superstar kit mostly thanks to the snare - a Ludwig w/ 1979 serial number. I am buying it from a close friend, but he has little clue to which Ludwig model it is. So far we have concluded that is a 79 (serial), it is chromed, 6,5" (or 18 cm from rim to rim) and with 10 lugs. This sounds awfully a lot like a LM402 and I will most probably buy it and restore it - currently it is in quite poor shape but nothing that new heads, lugs, strainer and good love is not going to fix.

My question is: were there any other models in 79 with 10 lugs, 6,5", chromed than the LM402? It can't be an Acrolite (which I hear is having a renewal in indie bands) but I heard that there were some... less than good... snares like the Rocker.

Anyone knows? And thousand thanks for the help guys, you are fantastic!

Oh, finally, I initially had thought to buy a TAMA 6" starclassic g-maple and might still do in the years to come. I understand that the maple and LM would be two very sonically different drums, right? They at least sound very different to me.

/ Fred,

drumming in Beijing for Italian three-piece Johnny Wadd

Are the lug casings imperial casings or bowtie casing?

LM402s had imperial style casings and the rockers had the pigmetal bowtie casings.

Hey Thingfish,

Excellent! Thank you for the quick feedback - I've googled some photos of rockers and LM402:s and sent over to him to compare the lugs. Great stuff.

If it is a 6.5" supra then I should be safe, I am mostly looking for a snare but got a quote of 740USD for the snare, a full 70s TAMA superstar (8,10,12,14,18,22) toms, hardware, two bass pedals and some Zildjian cymbals. Hence, if it is a LM402 it feels like I am doing a good deal - it sells for about 450 USD alone in Sweden.

I'll keep ya'll posted. Thank you for the help!

/ Fred

Dating a Ludwig drum by the serial number can be a pitfall. They were never cautious about using the serialized badges in sequential order. When a box ran out, they'd simply grab the next box in the stack and open it. Nobody bothered to make sure that the new stock of badges went underneath the older ones. The thought never crossed their mind that someone may want to try and equate the serial number to it's born on date.

You can't always rely on the date stamp inside the shell either. Date stamps were applied to the interior of shells when the shell was completed. Not when the drum was completed. Sometimes, a stockpile of shells ended up in the warehouse, and any particular drum shell with a stamp inside it may sit there months, even a year or more; before the hardware and a badge was attached to the shell.

That said, the Standard had a metal shell [probably Ludaloy] without a bead. They only came in 5x14, and used the Standard lugs [10 of them]. The Standard #600 [5x14] was made closer to your 1979 time frame. It had the same unbeaded metal shell, but 10 bowtie lugs. It was actually chrome-over-wood. If it had a beaded shell, it was either Acrolite or Supraphonic.

In order to date a ludwig drum, you have to remember they like red wine, and love to go dancing.

what kind of badge does it have? Blue/olive? Keystone? Or black and white parallelogram?? I believe none of the rocker snares had 10 lugs but used the black and white badges, and if its either of the first 2 kinds of badges then a supraphonic or supersensitive.

Hi Cheesadille and Polarnewfie,

Thank you both for the feedback I'll check if it has a beaded shell together with the imperial lugs - that should give a highly definitive answer. And yes, Polar, it has the blue/olive parallelogram logo which also lends it to being a supra.

Excellent, I'll know about the imperial lugs later tonight European time. Thank you for the great help!

Also: I have been reading up on the forums, where there seems to be a feeling that Supras should come from before 65 when they were not made of Luddalloy, and I would like to ask you if you have heard a large sonic difference (specifically in the 6.5", where I haven't read too many comparisons). At the end of the day this sale sounds like a good deal to me, and it will be a huge improvement over using the snares that bars / rehearsal places come with - but I thought to pick your brains

Cheers!

/ Fred

In my experience with an Aluminum Pearl Sensitone (excellent drum!) which is similar to the Acrolite (aluminum shell), I noticed a very distinct "bark" to it.

but what about the "Chrome-o-Wood?"

Well, I own a grand total of 11 snare's now. The only one I use 100% of the time on my set is the 6.5" x 14" supra. (occasionally use 1 or 2 others off to the side for flavor) . The pre 65's were brass, and thats a different animal altogether. They aren't my personal cup of tea, but MANY thousands of players will dispute my choice. Bonham disliked the brass snare's because " he just couldn't get the clarity no matter how much he tuned them". I can't say that my ears are as discerning as Bonhams, but the Supra's sound perfect to me, so I could care less about using something different. I can get all the sounds I want out of it. There are only 2 things that feel right between my legs.....My wifes head and a Supra.