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Polyrhythms?


JohnCav

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Edit: I think im confusing oddtimes in this. Odd times are played at the same tempo, but 3/4 would be counted 1n2n3 and 4/4 would be 1n2n3n4.

 

The speed only changes for polyrhythms then? Like 3/4 over 4/4 would be a bar of 3/4 played within that 4/4 with another limb?

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Obviously if both feels exist simultaneously, you have a polyrhythm. To keep it methodical and learnable, you have a couple options.

 

1)

You can superimpose both time signatures in the same time space. This is done by scaling both time signatures to their LCM. (lowest common multiple) 20 in this case.

With 20 divisions per bar you can have 4 groups of 5 units and 5 groups of 4 units existing in the same space and acting like separate entities. Arithmetically, all that transpires is 20 units.

 

2)

You can stay in one time signature and simply regroup the figures to imply the other signature. Some argue this is not polyrhythm but when you hear it done properly you wont care.

 

Several here have posted detailed descriptions of these devices elsewhere. Search.

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Obviously if both feels exist simultaneously, you have a polyrhythm. To keep it methodical and learnable, you have a couple options.


1)

You can superimpose both time signatures in the same time space. This is done by scaling both time signatures to their LCM. (lowest common multiple) 20 in this case.

With 20 divisions per bar you can have 4 groups of 5 units and 5 groups of 4 units existing in the same space and acting like separate entities. Arithmetically, all that transpires is 20 units.


2)

You can stay in one time signature and simply regroup the figures to imply the other signature. Some argue this is not polyrhythm but when you hear it done properly you wont care.


Several here have posted detailed descriptions of these devices elsewhere. Search.

 

 

Just did a search and found a very informative post. Gonna check out some of the dvds/books listed on there. I get the idea now.

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Here's the bottom line, simplest oversimplification of a polyrhythm, just so you can identify it. You have two (or more) time signatures going at once, and both always play 1 (the downbeat) at the same time.

 

If you want to play 2 over 3, you have a measure of 2/4 and a measure of 3/4 with the 1's coinciding. For that to happen, obviously the 3/4 rhythm is going to have go faster than the 2/4 rhythm. If it didn't they wouldn't fit in the same space.

 

Soooo...2 over 3 is something like this:

 

1---2---1---2---

1--2--3-1--2--3-

 

If you were to play 1-2-3 with your right hand and play 1 and the "ah" of 2 with your left, you'd have 2 over 3.

 

Got it down pat?! :thu:

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Another way they can work--a more interesting way than those mentioned, which are little more than triplets or quintuplets over bars of 2/4 or 4/4--is when two meters are going on simultaneously. They do not meet at one every bar, they only meet when they both land on one. Another way of saying it is that one of the meters goes across the barline of the other.

 

Here's an example. 5/8 groove, a 5/4 polyrhythm over it.

 

1---2----3---4---5--- 1---2---3---4---5---

1-2-3-4- 5-1-2-3-4-5-1-2-3-4-5-1-2-3-4-5-

 

(The spacing above doesn't work out perfectly, but you get the idea.)

 

The 5/4 is a quarter to every two 8th notes of the 5/8. The two meet up on one every other bar of the 5/8. Note that the 5/4 quarters sound "on the beat" in the first bar of 5/8, but they sound like off-beats in the second.

 

That's one of the things that makes them yummy.

 

This one is easy to try--play or tap 8th notes in one hand, counting 1-2-3-4-5-1-2-3-4-5, then add 1/4 notes in the other hand, one every two 8th notes.

 

The example is about as simple as you can get--next step is to be playing independent rhythms inside one or both of the meters. I once heard a clip of Dennis Chambers playing four meters at one time, one in each limb.

 

One of the cool things about Gavin Harrison's playing (he of Porcupine Tree) is that he will typically impose a "square" meter over an odd meter tune. You think you can dance to it until you try. He'll also impose odd meters over square ones. Makes for interesting sounding music.

 

Now, if I could only play them worth a {censored} . . .

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3's over 2's, sing "Don't {censored} It Up, Don't {censored} It Up" for the rhythm.

 

4's over 3's, sing "Pass the {censored}ing Butter, Pass the {censored}ing Butter" for the rhythm.

 

They are indeed, pretty much one of the coolest things ever.

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Over the Bar and clever Phrasing can end up sounding really cool when used right.

 

I was playing a tune called Nardis at practice the other day and to make the feel "darker" I started phrasing in 3/4 even though the tune is in 4/4 , still if I play 4 measures of 3/4 I'm back on the 1 in 4/4. This worked so well I thought I'd try phrasing in 5/4 over the 4/4 feel , again (& always) after 4 measure of 5/4 I was back on the 1 and in 4/4. I mixed it up with 3/4 and 4/4 and 5/4 a little 7/4 , but the 5/4 worked really well.

 

Feeling kinda cocky I tried doing this from random locations. I'd start the 5/4 phrase on the & of 3 , what do you know 4 measures of 5/4 later and I back on the & of 3 and playing in 4/4 time. The guys in the band loved it , as did I.

 

 

Fun w/ phrasing , good times.

 

Good tune too

 

If you count along you can get the idea.

[YOUTUBE]IA7d6P7yXSo[/YOUTUBE]

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