Single Stroke Roll

How fast do you set your metronome for doing 2-5 minutes of continuous single strokes? A bit of a rhetorical question, as this is not intended to be a contest to measure e-peen.

I'm more interested in finding out what an achievable and reasonable goal might be. Obviously this will be different for everyone. I increase the tempo by a couple of BPM every night when I practice, but I'm definitely approaching the limit of my current ability.

At 280 BPM (as in, each hand strikes 280 times per minute), I notice my shoulders getting very tight after 3 minutes. This suggests that my technique is failing at this speed. I don't use Moeller, or anything like that. And to clarify, I feel tension in my shoulders, but they are not involved in the motion of the strike... only wrist and probably a little elbow.

Bleh, overall point is... is the average drummer going to hit a relatively low ceiling without learning a "special" technique in this area?

The following is just my opinion (how I approach learning):

How many songs can you think of that include a three min drum roll, played at fast tempo? By all means work on your rolls, and at fast tempos, but perhaps practice them in context? Concentrate on working them into fills/breaks then go back into the groove. It will give your muscles a break and develop your musicality.

I never practice rudiments, but I play them when practicing all the time (there is a difference).

Just my opinion (I'll probably get slated)...

I'll be the first to disagree with longfuse.

While you're never going to play 3 straight minutes of single strokes, I think there's a lot to gain from doing it. 1) Muscle endurance. 2) Ability to maintain tempo for long periods. 3) Ability to hear and play evenly.

Find a tempo where you can comfortably do a couple minutes of singles. Tomorrow, bump it up 4 bpm. The next day 4 more, etc. Now, don't stop there.

The next thing I would do is turn off the metronome. Start a single stroke roll at a comfortable tempo. Gradually speed up. At the very first sign of tension in your muscles, gradually back the tempo down. Don't change the tempo quickly either direction and don't keep increasing through tension. Relax, and listen. Try to push yourself each day.

The first part is exactly what I've been doing. I was just wondering what an acceptable limit would be. In terms of what Longfuse mentions, not many rock songs involve anything at 300bpm...

In my mind, this exercise is no different than my running. When I was 18 (and 135 lbs haha) I could churn out a 5:45 minute mile no problem. I just pushed myself every day, and that's the limit I reached where I felt that i could not go any faster for that long without extremely diminishing returns for the amount of effort put forth.

Longfuse, I appreciate the comment. I do practice in the way you mention, but at the end of every practice session, I do single stroke, double stroke, paradiddle, and something else that I don't even know the name for (RRLLRL RRLLRL, etc) with hands and feet as endurance exercises more than anything else.

Then when the time comes to play a fast fill, the muscles are more than capable of maintaining consistency. At least, this has been my logic. I don't go running miles and miles for the ability to run miles and miles. I run miles so that when I'm playing soccer, my body is used to running.

I'll also disagree with longfuse; I think it is essential to practice rudiments alone. It's a lot like a horn player with scales--of course you use them all the time when you play, but you still need to practice them alone, so you can play them even better when it comes time to apply them.

Also, do what turdactyl said--play the roll slowly, then speed it up. A common way of playing rudiments is "slow-fast-slow." You start off slowly (like, excruciatingly slowly), gradually bring the tempo up to your limit then gradually bring it back down.

Another thing that I find helps is to play on something like a closed hi-hat. It is unforgiving, in the sense that you only hear the hit, and no ring or overtones. This will help you hear if you're playing evenly between your hands.

IMO, "an acceptable limit" would be whatever tempo you can reach without tension. Hopefully that will increase over time. If you plateau at whatever the drumming equivalent of a 5:45 mile is, that's pretty f'in good if you ask me.

I've never timed myself on a single stroke roll and sure as hell can't do it like some of. The guys here can, but I do know 85% of everything I'm asked to play is singles for the most part so I know how important they are to music and that you want to be as good with them as possible. 280 bpm sounds pretty dang good at it already.

Why would you ever need anything faster?

And if you did need faster what about pulling out the para diddle diddles, those are smoking fast.

I hear what you're saying, but, again, it depends how they're practiced. I'm paraphrasing the late Joe Pass here, but playing a scale in strict tempo over three octaves makes you very good at...well, playing a scale over three octaves in strict tempo. It doesn't necessarily make you John Coltrane. Put things into a musical context when practicing, however, and play said scale (over said range) against a chord progression, thinking about the relationship of each note to the chords you're playing over (and hearing those relationships), as well as trying to play something musical (well phrased and melodic), just seems more relevant to me. Why practice for 'when it comes time to apply them', why not just apply them?

This is one of the horses for courses things. Periodically I read interviews with musicians (including drummers) who take a similar approach and it's something I've always applied to whatever instrument I'm learning. On balance, I'd say that the majority of people do it the other way. I read a quote today by a well respected jazz drummer who reckoned he spent a couple of years working with a pad before going anywhere near a kit. I just don't have that dedication...and I'm not sure I like the end result (I don't like said drummer's playing - sounds anal to me). Not to say that all drummers who play rudiments are anal/mechanical (that would be a stupid statement), but 2 years?? Bad potty training if you ask me...

I understand the point about practicing for endurance, but not sure I understand the point of doing it till your muscles burn, and at tempos you'll probably never play at in a real life situation.

Anyway, I do realise that I'm in the minority...and I did say I'd probably get slated!

In the end, no one can tell someone else how they should drum, if said person is achieving the results they are happy with.

I do have to play a single stroke roll through verses for a song at about 220bpm... so it does come in handle occasionally. No accents make it a lot easier haha

300 bpm, sixteenth notes.

So is that each hand hitting 600 times per minute?

I think I read yesterday that the record is 670 for a single hand in one minute...

Here's the world's fastest drummer:

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

Ninja drumming. I like it!

I think rudiments are a huge part of practice and on avarage I spend about 5 hours a week on them.

I also do the same with my feet. I do 10 min. each day of playing a straight rock beat with 16th note double bass under it at about 105-110 bpm. After a few days I bump it up a little.

Hm. Never tried doing singlestrokes for longer than a minute or two as a warmup. 200 bpm paradiddles are a good thing to maintain, though.

The ideals of actual performance far exceed the simple 'clean and steady' norms. The push for speed should be taken in context of one's repertoire. Repertoire itself should reflect a broad range of playing requirements first off, then the player can identify specific areas as well as the general technical ceiling and start work on that basis.

RRLLRL = ?

RLRRLL = paradiddlediddle

That's news to me. Thanks for the clarification. I only did it because it seemed like a simple evolution of a paradiddle.

That would be an inverted Paradiddlediddle.

I'm working on one handed paradiddles.

try them w/ heel toe on a hand drum , works damn well.

Yeah, and I doubt that; I play too close to that for it to be a world record.

Actually you could alternate thumb and fingers as well as down up Moeller fashion.

You know irnbru, you are doing the right things. You've just reached your current limit on tempo. If you really notice a physical change at that tempo, I would decrease it and play comfortably.

I don't know if you already have JoJo Mayer's video but he mentions the same lament and discusses techniques and ideas for fixing it. Well worth the $30-40 bucks.