OT-Funny Ever Seen Young Nigel Tufnel

When I was in the Coverband contest, I went ahead and voted for performers in the other categories. While I was listening I came across this guy, and I kept thinking "where have I heard this before?" I think I found Nigel when he was younger or at very least, one of his students......Take a listen

[YOUTUBE]Hck8yiwtFKM&feature=player_embedded#![/YOUTUBE]

But nobody can touch the real deal if you ask me...Here's Nigel in his prime!

[YOUTUBE]k4UJkl6eaGQ[/YOUTUBE]

Whadayathink...close huh?

Shredders are funny like that. Torn between Paganini and drumitis - and failing at both.

depends on the shredder. There are quite a few that are very musical..and use their speed as a nice complement.

Check out Paul Gilbert (and Billy Sheehan too)..on the new Mr. Big song....that solo is great shredding in my opinion.

[video=youtube;mHGv5FCS2j8]

New Mr. Big?? Is it still Pat Torpey hiding in the back?

That phrase alone sounds pretty odd!! But, I must admit I was a fan... I'll have to check that out.

DB

But you proved my point...it's no the shredding that's the issue. Your video showed logical music sense...ripping it up but with a distinct purposeful musical expression. The guy in my original post just started finger exercises right out of the blue...no muiscal statement nothing... It was like watching a George Lawrence Stone exercise for guitar. To me it made no logical statement what so ever I couldn't even find a key there for a while.

Shredding like all things must have a reference point to work. Fast is only fast if you know what slow is just as loud is only loud if you know what soft is. I'm sorry, in a solo based competition, I don't need to here finger and dexterity etudes to be impressed. Even Eddie Van Halen knows the difference between making music and making piles of notehead sawdust.

But Nigel does have the look though don't he!

Yeah that clip is a rock tune. The speedness is just to goose the energy. Even then most shredders display an innate lack of swing - rhythm I daresay, and the kind of magic that comes from a deep sense of music and a true overview of ones craft. Waste of notes as Carmine said.

Same thing happens in drums though. The current group of respected 'drum shredders' a la Thomas Lang show a distinct lack of swing as well. So straight they sound robotic to me too. Peart has become like this in my opinion.

But I have to disagree with your second point. Many highly technical players have a deep understanding of music and overview of their craft. They just happen to play music you're not really into. To a Malmsteen fan this is as moving as whatever you are into.

[video=youtube;Fn6-XqmkKUA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn6-XqmkKUA

What to you is a waste of notes is heaven for others...

[video=youtube;dCud8H7z7vU]

Big difference between Ingvay and Wolfie. Anybody (yngwie) can manhandle a vibrator and learn all the hot stuff. But the craft of melodizing requires a very sophisticated interaction with the accompaniment. THIS is the body of the craft. With YM's own music there simply isn't a lot of composition to shine on. Rhythm section, riffs, and His Hotness. Simple formula, what a gig, still doesn't qualify any of it as good. Waste of listen.

I don't know much about Shredders, and frankly couldn't tell you who is better or worse in that department. I have seen a guy that is local to the Chicago area a few times and I was blown away every time I saw him. His name is Michael Angelo Batio. We all go away from one of his shows entertained, and that is one way I judge someones talent. If they are able to entertain their audience, I feel they have done their job.

[video=youtube;rutyA12z3Ok]

In your opinion. And your opinion is just that...your opinion. It's not a fact. As much as you might like to believe it is.

MAB is pretty well known in the guitar community. He's been "famous" there for a long time. He's got some great videos on technique that I've used for learning how to play a bit faster. My fingers a so slow though...I'll probably never get to even half his level. Not that I really want to anyway..lol.

He's a perfect example...Personally I think his music sucks. But many people really like it and that's cool. They are not wrong for liking it better than say...Jimmy Page's playing or Jeff Beck's playing.

Just as in drummers we can only make comparisons about tangible measurable things...like specific techniques. Like if you can play a single stroke roll faster than me than you are better than me at a single stroke roll.

But someone saying some type of music is "better" than some other type is just simply arrogant. The "way" someone plays or the type of music they do, is totally subjective. People who think that one type of music actually does suck in some tangible measurable way compared to some other form of music, just can't see past their own personal bias.

Typical retort. I have some experience with guitar gear and plating loudly, cleanly AND deftly takes a fair degree of technical groundwork. 10 points Ingvay and all Ingvay kind. Once you get the hang of it though, shred electric is pretty near a push button affair. The main filter being hand size and consequently dexterity. Still not much music required. I just go by musical standards, and gazing at the mountain, Ingvay's still in the village trying to get to the ski lift. Music: 35,000 and counting.

actually, judging by the opinions thrown out as fact on harmony central my retort is not typical at all.

So tell me oh wise know it all of music what are those standards you seem to understand so well, that everyone else who like music that you think is inferior, don't understand?

Give me examples of what is musically valid and invalid in your little world. Cause your last post said absolutely nothing.

Yeah, it's typical. You seem to want to defeat some stereotype of me. Grade school. Music has already been further than mongers like Yngwie will ever go.

And you seem to not want to explain why.

You call me grade school...now that's funny.

So I'll ask you again..and I'll keep asking you until you stop trying to avoid the question.

What is it that makes one type of music "better" than another? And give me examples of music you think is superior.

You can clarify to everyone here by answering the question and giving examples. No stereotypes necessary. Just exactly what THE standards of great music are.

Come on. Man up. Enlighten us on what qualities and characteristics make some music "further" (your word not mine) than other types of music.

You're a musician and have to ask why? Ok for education's sake, Yngwie simply doesn't cut it. His playing is very precise, monolithicaly loud, and lacking in nearly all but those two elements. This is arithmetic not guesswork.

Ahhh try to turn it around on me huh? What if I think Yngwie does "cut it"? (and..cut what? It's the "it" you keep avoiding) What if I think Yngwie's melodies are fantastic? What if I think Yngwie's music is totally emotional and inspiring? Who are you to tell me that is wrong?

Look it's simple 1001. You just simply cannot fathom that what you deem to be the factors that make music great are not universal. I'm not sure how to help you with this. But I'm telling you what you think is great is NOT what everyone thinks is great. And as much as YOU think they are wrong..they are NOT.

Frankly your attitude is arrogant and immature.

I use to think like that as well. That xyz pop music was {censored} and the bands I liked were so "musically superior". I was {censored}ing arrogant and immature too. Because somewhere out there there is a Jazz snob who's spent a lifetime mastering every aspect of song writing, melody rhythm, arranging, and on top of that being a master at his instrument. And I guarantee whatever rock band you presented as a shining example of "great music" he would laugh at as being simple chord progressions using simple scales with simple bass lines, with simple drum beats that anyone could learn to play in under a year. Of course this hypothetical person would be just as arrogant as your attitude is towards music YOU deem as beneath you. And HE would be wrong too.

The rest of this thread doesn't interest me a whole lot as, I could really care less about shredders for the most part. I think you made a very valid point here though man. However, I can't help but resist the mention of pop music, at least in the typical thought of pop music like most "bubblegum" music because, I suppose pop is a very general and even vague term since technically the Stones, Zep' and so on are "pop" but, most pop (at least now a days) is pure rubbish that the artist(s) hardly if at all created on their own.

Although you already pointed out that music comes down to connecting with people, and hopefully I didn't misinterpret you but, I agree that technical know how isn't what ultimately matters in music - it's the effect it has on the listener, be it the message, the thought/emotion that the sounds invoke or what have you.

Hello when did I become you? What's with the scenarios? You with an FBI task force?

Man I gotta say If I knew what made music great you wouldn't hear the end of it. But SRSLY, if you don't know bad music, this is not my responsibility. Yngwie is a business. If you care, just buy the ticket.

Absolutely. You are required to like what you like. But as a musician and not just a liker of music you have to draw lines and have specific criteria and evolve.

Exactly. And if Justin Beber or Lady Gaga or whomever else is the pop flavor of the month, music connects with certain people, then that is every bit as valid as the way the bands I love connect with me. As much as that may go against what you and I think is "valid". When you say "I can't help but resist..." I totally understand. I shake my head at some of the stuff that is out there too but thinking what I'm into is "better" is nothing but arrogant. There is no "better" with LIKE. Measurable quantities like technique are meaningless when it comes to "like".

Contrary to what 1001 thinks music and musicians most definitely do NOT have to "draw lines", "have specific criteria", and it does NOT have to evolve. It's music. It can be whatever it wants. I mean the very idea that an art form has to "draw lines" and "have specific criteria" is the very antithesis of art itself.

The problem as I see it these days is that rock has really become a clique. It's nearly turned into the blues or jazz or classical. Filled with a bunch of people who would put boundaries on it so as to "keep it their own". Create sterile "festivals" to give everyone exactly what they expect to hear. And look even in rock itself you have people like 1001 who don't even consider guys who actually play guitars, drums and bass, and write their own songs, musicians because they don't happen to play it in the way he thinks they should. Imagine what he thinks of rap! People cry about the death of rock but really it's the fans themselves who pretty much fuel these attitudes.

Thankfully there is still a strong pocket of rock that hasn't fallen prey to this kind of thinking and understands that boundaries, rules, and standards, are {censored}ing bull{censored} concepts and all that matters is what reaches people.

I'd appreciate it if you'd leave me out of your google fairy tale.