$500 used kit for beginner?

Hey guys and girls,

I want to start drums and buy a drum kit. I'm reading mostly that acoustic is a better option than electronic, is this right? Just the noise of an acoustic might be a problem, what do you guys do about that. What would be a good used kit for $500 used, any brands? models?

Thanks very much for any help

I started out on acoustic and played that for about 20 years and now am on electric mostly because of noise issues but I've also now come to realize that recording options are better on electric than acoustic if you don't have a great room, good mics, etc.

I don't think there is a "better" anymore. They are simply different.

500 used will probably go farther in the acoustic world than it will in the electric. Any kit in decent shape would be fine just for starting out. Put some fresh skins on whatever and it's bound to sound alright.

For electric I personally would stick with Yamaha or Roland. Especially used. I just think they have rightly established themselves as durable an reliable. For 500 you may be able to get something like a Roland TD6 or yamaha equivalent. Might have to be patient though.

I would say if you can get away with acoustic then go for that but if it looks like it would be a huge hassle then e drums will get you where you want to go too.

thanks for the really helpful comments, sound, I appreciate it. It seems Yamaha or Roland are really high regarded e drums, I've read it a few times now. What about acoustic kits, are there makes and models that stand out from the crowd or do i just get anything in the $500 used bracket and it'll be the same as the next one.

My thoughts: Like Soundcreation said, is no really right or wrong way anymore. But the kind of electronic drums you may find used for around $500 may be an older version?? Plus finding a used Roland or Yamaha elec kit is harder.

I'm more used to acoustic kits but have played around with elec kits and planning on saving up this year to get one next year. Plus what I'm finding out is an elec kit is like a stereo receiver, you still have to get amp to hear or use headphones. Where an acoustic set is ready to play right out of the box, although you do have to learn to tune with acoustic set.

You asked what do I do? Since noise is a factor at my home where I mostly play, I stuff the bass drum with pillows and blankets, I have REMO Muff'lrs (foam damping rings on the underside of my tom heads, I play with Regaltip Blaststicks, (Tougher than nylon brushes, softer than sticks) and wrap a down sleeping bag around the front of my set to keep the projection of the set down. This way it has the "unplugged" sound, the way the drums sound on the old MTV series "Unplugged".

I think is a tad easier to go from acoustic to electric than the other because of soft to hard hits, double bounce of sticks and that real cymbals are better than electronic, BUT BUT, electronics ARE getting closer and closer every year and the leaders are Roland and Yamaha. You can always go to music store and try out new sets, acoustic and electric and get a feel for the differences and what you like and then will give you more of a direction of what you want in a used set??

Electronic set: Needs power and an amp if you want to hear it in the room, but is easier to record, doesn't need tuning and is better for sound level issues and cymbals are the weakest point.

Acoustic: Can play right out of the box, get all the dynamics of hard and soft, better for stage and playing gigs, but takes up more space, have to tune drums and are hard to play where sound level is an issue. BOTH sets are great for practice or home stuff in the $500 range.

Good acoustic sets names: Yamaha ( hard to find a bad one), Ludwig, Pearl, Tama, Sonor, Mapex, Gretch, Pacific or PDP, are also certain models that are better than others since some sets are entry level and others are mid level and above sets. With ANY used set, go see set before you buy and make sure all the stuff works beforehand, stands and mounts aren't stripped, rims and lugs aren't missing or has bad rattles or doesn't have the sound you like, although, changing heads on acoustic set is a BIG part of the sound.

Can post pics of what you're looking at and we can give advice, plus take a drum friend with you if you can. Musical instruments lose Half their value the minute they walk out of the store brand new. So a $1,000 set New becomes $500 used IF, IF it is in like new condition, dents, missing parts, wear and tear, eats that down. Having extra stuff like better cymbals, upgraded bass pedal or stands, adds a LITTLE to a used set.

Good luck and hope this helps!

As twosticks said all the major companies make entry level kits that are very good value. Pearl, Tama, Yamaha, Mapex, Sonor..etc...

What you could do is browse your local craigslist and if you see some adds you think might be around what you want in terms of price...post 'em up here and everyone will give you their opinion.

And yeah yamaha and roland are pretty far and away the industry leaders in e drums. They've been doing it a long time and have the resources to lead the pack in terms of innovations. I have a roland TD9 and it's very good quality. The thing about edrums is though...they don't really sound all that realistic...at least to drummers. For that you need to get into 3rd party software that is triggered through your computer by edrums. But that's not really something you'd need to worry about at this stage. The module sounds on edrums are more than passable when you are just starting out. And they tend to have some cool learning features like built in songs to play along too and visual metronomes that allow you to track if you are playing in time or not. Of course this depends on the model Higher end gives you more features. For more money of course!

Almost a grey area as, this might be the deciding point depending on the individuals use and purpose.

Waklo, Twosticks and SC offered some great advice. Go to your local music store and take a look, try a couple things out and go from there. As they already stated, if you do decide to go with an acoustic kit and find some thing on CL then post it here to get some input, these guys definitely know their stuff! The great thing about buying used aside from the price cut on the shell kits themselves can some times be the extras you get with it. It's not terribly uncommon to pick up a beginner to intermediate kit with quality cymbals and hardware for a bargain, it's just a matter of patience but, it's well worth it in the end.

I'll add my personal two cents worth. Electric kits might be the only feasible option for some due to severe noise restrictions ie: townhouse, apartment etc. but, if you can go acoustic that is what I'd suggest because, there is a lot more life and dynamics in a real kit. Before I started drumming I used to use a few different software programs (like what SC mentioned using for an e-kit) and while some of the samples were pretty good, it just felt like it was missing some thing big. I've since gone acoustic and never looked back. The only downside (aside from the slight learning curve of tuning) is the inability to play late at night but, that may not affect yourself or others who don't keep "crazy" hours past midnight.

Good luck on the hunt!

Have you used any of the new programs like BFD2 (what I use) or superior 2.0?

For me I'm the opposite of you. I don't really see myself ever going back to acoustic kits aside from just for fun or maybe if I ever live gig at some point. For what I do now...which is desk top recording, home use play along etc....these programs offer all the dynamic range of acoustic kits plus I can own 100 different drum sets a hundred different snares, a hundred different cymbals and drop them all in at the click of a button. Recorded in studios I'll never have access too using mics, mixers, preamps, and consoles I would never even dream of being able to afford or even have access too. Hell you can even play jazz swirl brush snare patterns using these programs now.

There is no substitute for the experience of acoustic drums....they are what they are....the way they sound live with no mics, the way they move the air etc....

But at this point the e drum technology is 100% there, in terms of recorded sound, and dynamics, and response. Just a different physical feel on the pad itself.

It's just I wouldn't suggest that a beginner get into this kind of stuff as it has it's own learning curve in and of itself. Only mentioning it because there is still the crowd of acoustic drummers that will poo poo the edrum thing with the "not realistic sounds" arguments but that hasn't been true for a good 5 or so years.

Hey,

thanks very much for the help here, I don't feel near as vague now and think i know which direction i want to go in. I'm going to look for an acoustic kit. $500 used and I'll browse around for some of the brands provided. Thanks so much.

There's lots of pearl's on craglist. For $500 used what would be a good Pearl kit? Style of music is hardcore and rock. (Does style of music impact a purchase? Assuming so?)

Na not really. I mean, yeah you probably don't want an 18" bass jazz bass drum for hardcore and rock but aside from that nearly anything will get the job done. Really it would be best if you post a craigslist link we could take a look at and maybe see a picture or two.

Pearl have always made great drums in my opinion. My first set was a pearl export back in the 80's and it was totally rock solid. One thing though is that each company always seems to me to have that one entry level kit that is REALLY low end and a bit flimsy.

Stuff like this...

http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend.com/product/Pearl-SoundCheck-5Piece-Drum-Shell-Pack?sku=583010

Just having a quick look on musicians friend it looks like the Vision series would be the equivalent of what the exports were in my day. But maybe others here with a little more knowledge on these kinds of kits could chime in.

If you don't mind posting it maybe you could tell us your location and we could check out the craigslist adds for ya.

Different strokes for different folks? I do suppose it depends on the individuals purpose and use of the instrument, as I said prior. I actually haven't heard of the BFD series and, never got a chance to check out the Superior line - though I was interested a couple years back in the latter.

It does seem as though you've made some good points, I'll take your word for it man because honestly, I've only tried a couple e-kits. This past summer I did go to the local music store with a fellow drummer friend and he tried out some kit by Roland that was like $5k and, they seem to be more diverse in sound than they use to be ie: multiple sounds on one pad that better simulates a real kit but, in it's own way.

I've a question for ya man, do the e-kits now a days detect the sensitivity of a hit? An example would be building up from light to gradually hard on a tom and snare simultaneously?

In Pearl Drums, an Export series would be a great set to start with. They discontinued the Export series some 10 years ago??? The Vision series would be the closest they make to the Exports but from what I've seen in the drum shops, the Exports were just a little better. Not that Pearls or the Visions are bad, just like many stuff today, they don't make 'em like they used to.

In a nutshell, The Export series was started for guys just like you in mind, Newbie drummer that wanted a set to learn on, with pro like features, that would stay in tune and not break the bank. From the early 80's to the late 90's? Exports were found in more high school kid's bedrooms than you could shake a stick at and made Pearl's name in drums in the 80's and 90's like Ludwig had done in the 60's and 70's. School bands also purchased a lot of these sets. Pearl made a lot because they sold a lot of these entry level sets. So there was a "glut" on the market of these sets.

The thing is that entry level sets back then were made better than entry level sets now. That is like where Soundcreation was showing the "Sound Check" series and from what I've seen of Pearl's "Forum" sets, Those are examples of Pearl sets I WOULD NOT mess with. Plastic Bass drum hoops and cheap wraps etc. Also like used cars, it also matters how the set was taken care of, so that is why pictures with the ads really do count and again why I say to "see before you buy". Remember you can always shoot us links to what ads you are looking at and we can give more detailed opinions.

Also like Soundcreation was saying, a Standard five piece (snare, two toms over the bass and one floor tom) in standard sizes (14" snare/12" + 13" toms over a 20" to 22" bass and a 14"-16" floor tom) in terms of diameters of the shell or drum is normal for rock/ hard rock.

The biggest thing about a drums sound, such as being a "rock" kit or a "jazz" or "pop" kit is the choice in heads. Thicker heads tuned down (looser) in general will have a deeper or more "rock" like sound, thin to medium heads tuned higher (or tighter) will have a pop to jazz sound. Heads are to drums what strings are to guitars in a general sense.

Also be aware that a drummer has more money tied up in cymbals than he does in his drums. You can make a cheap drum set sound good with better heads, reshaping the bearing edge (edge of the shell that the head actually sits on) and tuning.

You cannot make a cheap cymbal sound better and is really another whole can of worms. But as a newbie, a decent set of Exports with even entry level cymbals from the biggest three cymbal makers (there are more) Zildjian, Sabian and Paiste Will set you up just fine.

YOU STILL NEED to go play on sets and cymbals at the music stores and research more to find out what sounds YOU are looking for and then we can tell you more how to get that sound rather than you relying soley on us to push a drum sound or set on you. Hope this helps and sorry so long.

I would imagine you will see a lot of Pearl exports. With some good heads, and tuning they sound good, and they're built solid enough. I know some drummers that gig every weekend with them.

Depends on the sound you want as to the sizes you want. Not necessarily the style of music really. Bigger drums for lower deeper tone, smaller drums for more punch. Heads and tuning also play a big part so really your options are limitless.

Exaple: I like to play rock and I have different size drums, but mainly stick with 20" kick, 12 rack tom, 16 floor tom. Kind of get the best of everything I think with those sizes, they work with about anything.

Cymbals, are your biggest expense. Take your time with cymbals, don't buy cheap budget cymbals. Go to youtube, and check out all the different flavors. The rest of the band may not notice the extra attention you put into picking out your cymbals. But that's where your personality comes from, your cymbals..

Example: I had a bunch of cymbals, and after two years, settled on 14 hats a 24 ride I got from a forum member, and another 20 inch ride, that crashes well.. It's a unique combination on sounds, that I wasn't looking for, it just happened. But it works. So many options out there, and you'll settle on a sound you like, after you've been playin a little while.. Everybody can tell ya what might be low quality junk, but nobody can tell you what you are going to like in a cymbal.

Even the best roland kit out there...the TD20 sounds like {censored} in comparison to BFD2 or Superior 2.0 It's just simply a matter of size. The modules cannot hold that kind of information and probably never will be able too. No matter how much memory they can achieve I'm gonna guess a standard computer will always be able to hold more. So basically what this means is the samples on the module are like one hit for each velocity level. So if you play a roll at a consistent velocity (sensitivity setting) it triggers the exact same sound over and over and ends up sounding like a machine gun.

Where the software programs really shine is that they have the guy in the studio hit the drum from ultra quiet to hardest hit and repeat this 10 times so what you end up with is over a hundred samples of a single drum being hit. They stitch all of them together to make a smooth curve from quiet to loud and also add in programing so that the system never plays the same sample two times in a row. So for all intents and purposes no two hits you'll ever make are ever the same, and therefore you always get a natural sound.

All of this comes at a cost though and that is the program at full application is like 50GB of information. That's for about 5 or 6 different complete drum sets, and a bunch of cymbals and snares. Of course you don't use all of them at once but a fully loaded 5 piece kit with cymbal slots full at max settings draws a TON of RAM. The major hurdle was for a while latency. The effect that there was a delay between when you hit the edrum and then heard the sound...but this is already largely a thing of the past as audio interfaces and soundcards are easily there. Latency's now are virtually un detectable to the human ear...but technically still there.

And yeah the things like playing two surfaces at the same time is old hat at this point. The sensitivity thing is mostly a function of the modules. This is the one area I think can still be improved on but really at this point I would consider it "fine tuning" as dynamics are 99% of the way there.

Basically I see it as it is finally at a level that would make me, someone who's played acoustic for 25+ years now, fully accept it as something I would record and let people hear because it sounds and plays real enough.

Here's a quick clip I did ages ago when I first got the program. I posted it here as a "how do you like my new drum set" thread. It fooled everyone. Well there was one person who thought it sounded too professional because of the mics, etc...so I'll take that one as a compliment. Sorry the playing isn't the greatest but it gives you an idea. That's pretty much the raw sound as recorded by the producers. You can add in all kinds of EQ, compression etc...

Superior 2.0 is amazing, I've been using it a few months now and it sounds awesome. The only thing I wish we could do, is sample our own kits..

I bet we'll see software even better on board in a module someday soon. If Sony can build a play station, that can handle what it handles, in such a small package, it's totally doable, for an audio engine.

Hmm, that clip does sound pretty good man. The memory usage on some software is really hit and miss I've found, when it came to EZD and EZDFH they were both pretty fair in how much they used but, Native Instruments DFH2.0 was a real hog on memory, it did sound a bit more natural than the former programs though. I'll agree that using software does give you more customization, at least when using it in a sequencer like Fruity Loops because, I recall being able to adjust the individual levels of each and every hit to achieve a lower velocity hit on the snare and toms.

Yep...you can adjust all the levels for realism. Just with edrums you can do it with your sticks instead of programing it. Really these company's main markets are the producers and programmers of the world. It's only now starting to filter over to regular drummers as an option.

I think there is a bit of fear in the acoustic drum world about stuff like this. For sure I sat on the fence for way too long about it. But one of the really cool things for acoustic drummers is that they can slap a few triggers on their kit, record in midi at the same time they are recording their acoustic kit, and then if they don't like a certain sound they are getting from one of their drums, they can drop in a sampled piece to compliment. I think that's pretty cool power to have these days.