Warped?? Outta Round??

Tuning is something Ive always struggled with and therefor dreaded. Ive watched various videos on Youtube on the topic but to no avail. Anywho,.. Ive recently purchased new heads for my snare and attemped to change and tune up the top head over the weekend. Over the course of two hours, I had the just the batter head on and off the drum 3 times and wasnt able to get an even sound around the lugs. It seemed that when I got one lug close and moved to tune the next, it would pull what I had accomplished back out. I am tightning finger tight, in small increments and in the star patten. So after the third attempt I removed the head and decided to measure the diameter of the drum to see if there was an issue. I get approx a 16th of an inch varation(using a tape) when measured in two spots 90deg from each other. My question is; does a 16th constitute a warpage or out of round condition or is that tolorable? And is that enough to cause the problems Im having? The drum is a 14" Mapex maple that came with my Pro M, the head is an Evans power center coated. Any advice is greatly appreciated, Thanks!

Interesting outatime. I'm not positive, but if you truly are off by a 1/6", that may be a problem. Have you sat the drum on a true flat surface and looked around the bearing edges to see if they're OK? Something is definitly wrong if you're having that much difficulty with the screws/lugs. You should have that thing tuned in a few minutes, even if you have a tough time tuning. Has the snare always been this difficult to tune, or is this a new problem?

I want to say its always been a tough tune, but dont have enough faith in my tuning skills to blame the drum 100%. Ive just over tightened in the past to get it playable. Couple things I forgot to mention is that the hoop tends to pull to one side when tightning, although rotating the hoop 180 did help this some. And some of lugs get tight sooner than the others do(lugs are clean, rust free), even with equal turns. The sound I cant seem to get rid of is that "doppler" effect, and that may be throwing my ear off also when it comes to the actuall tuning of the head. None the less, very frustrating.....

I have not checked the bearing edge against a known good surface as of yet(Glass table??), Great idea tho, will possible do it tonite. Thanks

1/16 of an inch is not enough to give you an untunable drum. I would check on a flat surface like Marko said. If it's not the drum, you may have to accept the fact that some people take a long time of tuning badly before they ever tune well.

Or, you can hire me to tune for you. $1000/day.

I agree 1/16" variation isn't likely the culprit.

It's impossible to say without seeing it, but I would check the shell on a flat surface just to be sure, butI think I'd lay my money on warped rim...

By "to no avail" do you mean that you haven't been able to apply what you learned from viewing those vids to this particular drum, or that you don't really understand what you should be trying to do, and most importantly listening for after viewing them?

If the former, problem likely exists with the drum. If the latter, problem is going to continue no matter what drum you're working with.

Like kmart said, now that you mentioned how the rim behaves and pulls to one side, I agree with a warped rim. Still, just to be sure, check your bearing edges on a glass table. I play Mapex too and have played the Pro M's and damn near bought a kit. I have always felt that their QC is excellent, but you may have one that slipped through. I hope not. The rim would be an easy fix. Measure it also and check it on the glass too. I'm betting that's the culprit man.

First off ya gotta break the head in. You could be fighting an unusual collar, glue issues or any number of head issues that have nothing to do with the drum. Put the head on the drum, tighten down the lugs and then push on the center of the head. If it cracks while pushing down, don't be alarmed. That new head needs to be seated...then after you have broken the head in, release all the tension and start the tuning process...finger tighten the lugs, then in incrments of a half turn ONLY in a start pattern all around the drum. If one lug becomes loose, run it up hand tight first, then do the half turn. And when tuning after you reach your designated pitches, always loosen the lug you are tuning BELOW the pitch and sneak up to what you are going for...go down to go up...

This is the kind of good info

I havnt been able to find. Everything Ive read or seen is always "equal turns". Great tip Carmine!

I will be sure to check and apply all things mentioned here ASAP. Tonite is a late night for me and wont get home till 10pm or so, but pass or fail Ill post back for sure.

Thank You!!

Use two keys simultaneously and visit the DTB for advice. Stick with it and it will become intuitive.

Perhaps you're over-thinking this somewhat...

VERY simply, increments of tension/the physical act of turning a drum key aside, can you tell BY EAR when you've got individual tension rods close/in tune with each other?

In other words, are you able to HEAR the difference between lugs that are in tune and those that are not?

tighten that {censored} up real tight with a key & whack it!

So far this has worked the best!!

So as my follow up, I checked my shell and my hoop and neither appear to be warped/bent. So I again started with just the batter head, finger tight, then in half turns in the star pattern till I got a audible tone. Then attempting to get the lugs close in tune to each other with small incs till i got them close. I did have to repeat this process once as I felt I had lost track of tension and noticed that head was pulled tighter on one side. So I removed all tension and started over. So on the second go around I had all of your suggestions running in the back of my mind, and 6topher post kept ringing out, "tighten that {censored} up real tight with a key & whack it!" and thats what I did. although not real tight. And then I let it sit and snap crackle and pop fur awhile to seat the head. Then I removed all the tension and tuned back up again.

I guess I had or have a fear of over tightening the head causing damage, and I just hadnt been tightening enough. Call it a fear from lack of exp. So I got the top sounding just okay, and move on to the bottom. This head being a hazy300, seemed to fit the diameter of the drum better(snug) than the batter did(batter went on loose). I tightened it in the same fashion, again not knowing how tight was tight. Let me ask, is it common for the lugs at the sides of the snare bed to require more tension to tune??

Anyways, Ive managed to get the drum playable, good feel, decent tone with some ring(but no doppler) but I think the snare side still needs work. its kind of sloppy sounding unless i tighten the snare wire real tight. Overall I like the warm semi open sound of the Power Center vs the dry HD I had removed.

I know its a bit of a long read, but again thanks to all who have read it and offered suggestions. The Toms will be next, hopefully easier. I know I will enjoy playing so much more when I get these cans sounding their full potential.

Any other feedback or suggestions are always welcomed...........

Take your kit to a local drum shaman and have your kit exorcized and blessed my son. Or, you could pee on them. There's always that option.

kidding........................................................................

but not about the peeing part..................................................

Stick a head on it - no counterhoop - and spin the head. Even if the drum is warped, as long as the head spins it isn't warped enough to make a difference.

I know guys who spend hours and hours worrying about getting their snare drums to sound "perfect". I'm of the opinion that as long as I have the same relative tension at each lug, and the drum sounds good - I'm not going to worry about whether each lug is perfectly matched. I'm going to be beating on it, which is going to end up stretching the head and pulling it out of tune anyway.