I HATE SMALL VENUES!!!! (venting...)

Played a show last night at a small bar. Seating for about 70 people I would guess. The typical "move a couple of tables and setup in the corner under the dart board" venue. And of course, the chorus of "you're too loud" started pretty much immediately.

I tried to match my playing to my guitarists level, but I think he was too loud for the venue which makes me too loud -- his claim was something about how his tone isn't any good at low volume levels. It also didn't help that his amp was pointed right at me all night.

We play hard rock. I'm a straight rock player so I hit pretty hard. My drums are tuned to sound good when hit hard. Not when I baby them. About the softest I can hit is like a 2" wrist stroke on the snare.

But at that soft a stroke and low volume, I don't think my drums sound good. Nor do I feel like I really get into the show 'cause I need to keep my volume low. It also detracts from our "image" as a big rock show.

And seriously, playing "Evil" or "Rock Candy" or "Dirty Hole" with a light touch... well, I think the songs lose their swagger.

I know the answers are varied: Improved technique. Develop an authoritative but light touch. Tune your drums to the venue. Use technology (IEM's, edrums) to minimize stage sound and run everything through the PA.

What I'd really like is a venue with a stage, where I don't have to worry that stage volume -- and the luxury to take only shows in larger venues. But for now... the morning after. I only have the energy to complain.

Yeah d'ainnno room in dem small venuses...

This be your problem. They blame us, but it's really their fault. Bastards.

In order for any band to play a small venue, you HAVE to control the stage level (yes, even if the stage is a corner of the bar underneath the dartboard). What is your monitor situation? Are the instruments mic'd or direct to the board? Suggest to him that he reduce the amp volume and throw some of his guitar in his monitor mix. Also, move his ass over and tell him NOT to point his amp at you. My .02.

I specifically asked if I was too loud and they said, "No, you're overall too loud." So I guess the mix out front was balanced but not at a level to their liking.

We only ran one monitor last night up front so I was going without. Nothing was running through the PA but vocals and a bit of kick drum. Guitar and bass played through amps.

I'll suggest we put more of the guitarist through the PA. I would have liked the bass their as well but with no monitor for me, that was out. Plus we were using the venues PA system and they only had 12" speakers with no subs.

The guitarist is suggesting a plexi-shield fishbowl for me. I've never played behind one before, but I guarantee you I'm already sick just thinking about hauling that to gigs.

I appreciate the input. I figure the discussion will be all about me so if I can throw some suggestions at them, I may be able to get them to realize it was ALL OF US.

Plexiglas shields suck unless you have a decent mix in your monitor. Maybe you should tune a snare for lower volume stuff and bring it to those types of gigs. One of the guitar players I perform with turns his amp towards the back wall on gigs that aren't mic'd, allowing the tone to still be driven but not blasting straight out.

But ours go to 11

It can't be helped. It's always gonna be a challenge when you play in small bars, especially if you're doing hard rock. The obvious fix would be to not play in small bars. Your type of music is not conducive to that kind of room.

If you must play those kinds of venues, you may want to use Hot Rods instead of sticks, to take some of the bite out of your drums. Also, have your guitarist tilt his amp back so that it's pointing right at his head instead of pointing at you or the audience. You'd be surprised how effective that is at controlling his volume! (however, LOTS of guitarists won't want to do this. The reasons why would take up another thread.)

Acoustics in a small space are usually {censored}ty (unless it was designed well), and 'standing waves' in that small space can affect how each of you hear each other, depending on where you're standing, or in our case, sitting! I've had situations where I can't hear the bass player, but if I stand up and move a couple of feet over, I can hear it just fine!

Anyway, just some stuff to think about. YMMV.

For me, there's no way around it, if you're a hard rock band, you should be loud. It's the venues fault for booking a band that doesn't fit their room.

DW-- Thanks for the suggestions. Of course I have a set of rods that I didn't bring. They certainly would have helped although I hate playing with them.

And you and Grem are right on. We're not the right band for that venue. But in all fairness, we got called at the last minute to fill in for another band that backed out. I'm not sure they knew what they were getting.

HOWEVER, our guitarist knew the venue size when he accepted. And that's probably when he should've declined.

The follow-up from guitar-land is that "maybe we should put together an acoustic set for small rooms. You know, grab some bongos and a tambourine or something."

I'm sure our acoustic version of "Inside Lookin' Out" or "Revolve" or "Girls, Girls, Girls" would be epic.

This.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to work out a sets worth of lighter {censored} if you think you're going to be stuck playing more gigs like that.

But I hate playing in a band and having to hold back through the set. I can't stand watching bands hold back in their set too.

when i hear "play quieter," it's an immediate trigger to play as hard and loud as i possibly can.

go home and watch wheel of fortune if you can't handle a live band, mother{censored}ers.

we just played a simular venue.....but...we used a half stack for the FOH. three monitors across the front and one tilted on its end back by me. This place had 75 people in there at one time and was packed. Bass player used a amp that was 12"by12", run through the system. My wifes guitar got ran through her modeler and to FOH and her monitor. Other guitar player used his amp turned around facing the wall, mic'd to FOH and his monitor. We were actually told we could be louder..... sounds like you have some other issues with members and I wouldn,t think glass would help, if its more than just drums that are too loud.....

I'd prefer you stick HIM in a fishbowl. I agree with Colby that a shield won't work unless you have a good monitor mix. I do have some experience playing behind one at an opry gig I used to cover pretty often. Also, the amp facing backwards is a good suggestion.

Yeah, another vote for "wrong band at the wrong venue." When my cover band books a show, we clearly state "we're a loud, a$$-kicking hard rock cover band. We'd prefer Disurbed and Godsmack over Van Halen and Led Zep."

Fortunately, our reputation precedes us in ol' Taxachusetts.

Be well worth the while of any buncha rockers to have unplugged sets ready to go. There should be a Volume Limited show on Mtv so they get the idea. haha. I've heard tons of karaoke that worked just cuzza the good singing. Conversely if 75 people are sounding like a good time, that's gonna take some SPL to get over.

Been there, done that and bought the T shirt, a few times, and I feel your pain. It sucks. But, I agree, don't book into those kinds of places, if you play harder edged music, and I also agree, that the venue has to assume some of the responsibility, by knowing what kind of band they're booking, by way of a demo, etc.

It's a two way street.

Been there done that. What I found is that if I muffle the crap out of everything I could still hit pretty hard. Duct tape (Gaffer's tape) is your friend. You tend to keep hitting it hard to get the sound you want, but only half that sound is going out to the audience. Beats blastiks.

1) (Pet peeve) Duct tape and gaffer's tape are two entirely different products, and will have two entirely dufferent end-results if one uses them to muffle drums. Mainly that one will come off easily, and one will result in a ton of residue/gunk left behind.

2) Muffling the hell out of one's drums, IME, by definition means one is unlikely to get the sound they want out of them. I'd rather stay at home than play out on a kit that's got ten tons of crap on it to make it 'quiet enough'. Obviously, YMMV, but I suspect I'm not alone in that opinion. I'd prefer blastiks over gunked up heads, if those were the only choices available.

...The follow-up from guitar-land is that "maybe we should put together an acoustic set for small rooms. You know, grab some bongos and a tambourine or something." I'm sure our acoustic version of "Inside Lookin' Out" or "Revolve" or "Girls, Girls, Girls" would be epic.

The other option would be to put together 3 sets of not as hard rock (yeah, I know. Just keep some motion sickness bags handy!) for just such an occasion. You know...stuff that doesn't have to be loud to sound correct. For an old fart like me, the selections would include Springsteen, Steve Miller, etc.. Not "hard rock" but still driving. Know what I mean?

just a suggestion, for what it's worth. Good luck!!

Actually, if you remove Duct tape immediately after the gig (and I mean as soon as the gig is done, not when you get home), there is no residue.

...oh, and of course, I'm talking about a fresh roll of Duct tape, not one that has been baking in someone's car trunk for years.

If the person paying you says it's to loud then turn down or you probably will not play there again. A real Pro can play just as good quiet as loud. You might not just lose that gig but bar owners all know each other & if word gets around you might have NO area gigs.

Dave Huffman

I recognize your understanding of playing out, you have done that a ton more than me in the past 25 years. When I played out I used duct tape pretty regularly when confronted with this problem, even on cymbals. Never had a problem with gunk when removed after one show. Blastiks weren't even around yet.

You are right though, totally muffled drums never gave the sound I wanted. But that wasn't the point. The point was quieter play, and even though I hated it, I could still play fairly normally in a quieter situation by doing this. Best option? of course not. Having to play and showing all you have? Better than blastiks.

if you won't play the way the managment wants, you won't be back! Been there & done that. Don't burn bridges as it can come around & bite you in the ass!

I think that's the point here, Dave. HIs band wasn't suited for that venue - they're NOT going to be back. It was a last minute booking.

Remember that phrase from The Untouchables, when Sean Connery goes "You don't bring a knife to a gun fight?" Well, you don't book a hard rock/ metal band at a coffee house.

This issue isn't going to be about what to do to your drums technique - this is purely a result of booking. And guess what? It happens, amigos!