Singing on pitch issue

I'm back at learning how to sing...I've found a tuner for my computer so I can see if I'm singing on pitch or not. At first, when I played a note on my guitar, I couldn't match it at all.

After about a couple weeks of practice now I'm perfectly in tune, it's not instantaneous, but If I play a note on the guitar, listen carefully and than sing it I'm rarely off pitch.

Now the problem is to sing on pitch in a song! I mean, If I'm playing just one note and than try to sing it it's ok, but in a song, it's too fast and most of the times the note isn't even in the chord that the guitar is playing.

I'm stuck at this point! I don't understand what I'm supposed to learn now!

I mean, what's the next step in practice?

Do I have to learn to tell if, singing a note acapella, it is on pitch or not? Or do I have to learn how to sing a phrase playing just the first note of it on the guitar and than, from there, trying to sing the rest of the phrase on pitch?

That's the issue, plus I can't understand how it's possible that I have no problem to tell if I'm singing on pitch playing a note on the guitar while, acapella, I sing like 1/4 tone off pitch withtout realizing! I mean, If my ear is good enough to tell while playing a note how is it possible that acapella I have no clue about it, am I tone deaf? I think I shouldn't be tone deaf because I can sing on pitch with the note on the background.

Please tell me what you think, thanks for reading!

If you were tone deaf, you'd talk funny. I'm going to assume that you don't talk funny (because very few people do), so that means you're not tone deaf.

Regarding your problem, I suggest you start with a very very slow melody. Use your guitar as a middle-hand if necessary. As you sing along to the slow melody (or simply some interval) played on your guitar, check each note (i.e. make sure you're on pitch) before you move on.

Eventually your brain should develop some recognition of what melodies in general are composed of, or something, lol.

Good luck!

EDIT: I don't know where the ability to sing a'capella on pitch comes from. I suspect it's muscle memory and relative pitch - if you sing two notes, the second one will be sung with the first note still ringing somewhere in your brain, and if your relative pitch is good enough, the second note will be clean. Maybe? Herp derp.

Singstar!

Thanks for the answer! I don't talk funny

About singing to a simple melody, do you mean sing while playing the melody?

For example, the song love interruption from jack white, the first phrase is "i want love to", played over an E major chord, the notes are B for "i want love" and E for "to". Should I keep playing the E chord and than sing over it? And than move on to the next phrase?

The thing I still don't understand is how a singer (professional or not) sings on pitch. I mean when he's singing the melody is he focused on listening every note(the instruments are playing in the background) he needs to sing? Or does he sing on pitch because his voice is trained to sing on pitch?

In other words will I have to keep listening to the guitar notes on the background or eventually I'll be able to sing without paying attention to sing on pitch because my voice will be trained to sing on pitch?

And another thing I don't understand is, if a singer is out of the musical environment and sings a note(without playing that note on the background so he can't use realtive pitch), is he able to tell if he's on pitch?

Because I've been practicing a 5 tone scale, singing it first while playing all the note on the guitar and than playing the first note and trying to sing the others by relative pitch. I'm on pitch most of the time but if I try to sing a note during the day, out of the musical environment, I'm not able to tell if I'm on pitch at all. Same if I'm singing over a song, I can't tell If I'm on pitch, it's too fast to have the time to listen to every single note. So what am I doing wrong? Because I can tell if I'm on pitch on a single note while playing it on the guitar but not during a song or without a reference note.

Pitch can be tough sometimes. You're probably just having trouble changing pitch throughout a phrase. I suspecting two main issues. Agility and visualizing the note in your head (or "prepping" the note). I ran into this EXACT issue a few days ago when my teacher got me to sing the 9-tone Caruso scale 3 times fast on a single breath..

I would actually suggest practicing the 9-tone Caruso scale. lol (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 on 'Aw' vowel). Start slow to begin with and then gradually speed it up.

As for the guitar: I think Masklin was suggesting that you not play any chords for the time being. Play only the melody line on the guitar and sing along with it, as slowly as you need to to. After 20, 50, 100 times (whatever you need), try to sing the melody a capella, without the guitar. Then when you feel ready, try the first few measures while playing chords on the guitar. Rinse, repeat, until you feel comfortable.

I'm not sure what you mean by singing on pitch while outside a musical environment. Do you mean that you can't produce something that sounds like the correct melody (relative pitch problem, cured by practice)? Or do you mean you can't tell if you're singing the song in the correct key (absolute pitch problem, not very important at all)?

You, my friend, are in need of something called "ear training".

Like others have said, part of staying on pitch is muscle memory.

If you can, do daily vocal workouts (6 days a week) to build up your voice.

There are many vocal workouts. So just find one that you like and stick with it (I use both the high and low workouts on Anne Peckham's "The Contemporary Singer").

Daily practice with strengthen your voice and give it more agility that will help you instinctively hit those notes.

This part doesn't take any mental effort. It's just a matter of doing it every day.

The other thing you need is an internal sense of where you are in the song without having to follow another instrument note-for-note. This is where ear training comes in.

This week I finally reached the point where my pitch is good enough to move onto the next step.

My voice teacher now wants me to build a sense of pitch without listening to other instruments.

Here is this week's homework for me:

Exercise #1

1)Imagine a note in my mind (for ex. the C one octave below middle C) and sing it.

2)Keep that note constant and don't adjust to the piano yet. You want to clearly hear how far off you are.

3)Adjust up or down until you hit the note.

4)Go to step 1 and use a different note

Exercise #2

Second, it's a good idea to know what key a song is written. Often songs end on the root note. So for the entire song, always imagine the root note in your mind. And try to figure out how far the current note is from the root note. Think songs as movement away or towards the root note.

For example, if the song is in F major (which has a B-flat), think of F always. Then, when you play the A or C above that F, keep the F note in your mind. A is the 3rd note in the scale. C is the 5th note. So when you see an A, imagine an F note in your mind. Then imagine, jumping from F to A. Think of the A, as being a movement from the F note.

If you use "do-re-mi". Think of F as "do". A is "mi". C is "so". Play an F and think of singing "do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do" in your mind. For A, think "do-re-MI" and sing "mi". For C, think "do-re-mi-fa-SO" and sing "SO".

Exercise #3

Third, get a solfege book. Play the first note in each measure, but sing the other notes in that measure without playing guitar. Your mission is to not drift too far on the notes not played on your guitar. Imagine moving your pitch up and down as you progess to the other notes .

Lastly, I'm buying this book now for ear training.

(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793581931/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

You can read a preview of it at Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0793581931/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link).

From what I've seen, I really like their ear training method. The exercises are very practical.

Anyway, good luck.

Music is not absolute like you seem to think it is. Yes, we have a standardized scale where A4 is 440 Hz, but this has not always been the case. That same note was once 431 Hz or something, and I believe there is a scale designed for simple calculations where you define the note C to be a power of 2, i.e. 2 Hz, 4 Hz, 8 Hz, 16 Hz ... 512 Hz for C5 etc.

Despite these standard pitches, you can always sing something 'on pitch' on your own. The first note you sing determines ALL the other notes, regardless of what frequency the first note happens to be. It could be 342,353362 Hz. Cool, doesn't matter - if you have a decent relative pitch you can always find other frequencies that correspond to the remaining notes in the scale you're singing (major, minor, etc).

Firstly thank you all for your help!

For everybody, what's more important for a singer/easier to learn, perfect pitch or relative pitch? Do you recommend to keep learning perfect pitch or start trying a relative pitch course?

@Davie Thanks, I will try that scale

@Jersey Jack Ok so you're saying that singing on pitch will become only a metter of muscule memory? If I try that phrase a number of times than my muscle will remember the right pitch?

Because, for example, there's a part in the song love interruption where an A note is sung over a G major chord, but that chord doesn't have the A note! So how am I supposed to apply the exercise I made until now (playing the note on the guitar and than sing it so I'm able to tell if I'm on pitch) if I don't have the A note to check?

About the other question I meant if a professional singer, when he gets up in the morning, as first thing e can sing a sound and tell if it's on pitch or not.

Maybe my question if it's all singers have perfect pitch.

@chamcham I did ear training with the perfect pitch course for a while but are you saying that perfect pitch is the basic to sing? Every singer has perfect pitch?

Btw thanks for the exercises, I'll try them.

@Masklin I did say I'm on pitch while playing a single note but I'm not when the note I'm playing isn't played in the song. For example an A note over a G major chord. Maybe I just need relative pitch traning?

About the last thing, I meant If I get up in the morning and try sing a note it's never on pitch, my question was If that being on pitch is required or not for a singer, to be able to tell (acapella and without hearing other notes) if a note he sings is on pitch.

"Perfect Pitch" ear-training has nothing to do with singing. there are tons of people who have taken that program that can't carry a tune in a bucket, with an opera singer helping carry it.

You just can't sing - which means, you haven't trained the muscles to respond to hitting the correct pitch. Tons of people are called "tone deaf" when all it means is - they haven't developed the muscles and agility to control their vocal cords outside of a speaking element. Some people want to put for the the "I'm a natural singer" myth. yes, you can learn to sing by singing along to songs, but the reality is - you are also developing tons of bad habits, you haven't correctly developed the muscles used to sing, and when you do something that harms your voice - like blow your voice out from blowing too much air through them in an attempt to produce more volume - you don't know how to take care of your vocal cords.

My advice is always going to be the same - take some lessons from a reputable CLASSICAL/OPERA-based vocal instructor. That way you you skip a lot of the pitfalls that occur from trying to do it without an instructor.

That is because you didn't warm up first. Your vocal cords are slack, loose, and relaxed when you wake up. It is no different than trying to get out of bed, put on a pair of tennis/running shoes and then immediately trying to run as fast as you can, or trying to lift as much weight as you can without warming up.

All good professional singers warm up - those that don't - won't last very long.

Did you know when they have shows like the Grammies - they bring in several world renowned vocal instructors to warm up the vocalists before they go onstage to perform?

Why? So they don't go onstage and blow their voices out on TV.

@consume I did take vocal lesson but there are no good teachers around here, she wasn't even telling me when I was off pitch and we kept learning new songs even if I was out of tune on the others...

I did warm up first, it isn't a problem of warming up. It's a problem of pitch. From what you write it seems like everything is about muscle and nothing is about hearing the pitch. But how can my muscle learn where that A note is if I have no relative pitch?

To use your example of running, If I try to start running as fast as I can in the morning I'll hurt myself but it's not like I'll fall off, I'll be able to run.

Instead If I try singing a note first thing in the morning(without hearing notes at all before singing) I'm not able to tell If I'm on pitch or not, at all!

And about the perfect pitch, maybe they can't carry a tune because they haven't worked on their muscle but I think they can tell if they're on pitch or not.

I get the feeling you're skimming rather than reading our posts. Let me spell it out for you, again:

Perfect pitch and singing are almost completely unrelated.

And

Relative pitch and singing are very closely related

If you have a hammer in your hand, and you want to put a nail in a piece of wood, you might know exactly what you're supposed to do (corresponding to relative pitch), but if your arm is too weak or you simply suck at using hammers (corresponding to muscle memory), you wont' hit that nail.

I'm not skimming at all, I'm reading them all (and more than one time as english isn't my 1st language) and answering to everybody.

"Relative pitch and singing are very closely related" that's what I needed to hear, I'm going to start to work on my relative pitch today! Thanks!

No. I'm definitely not saying that perfect pitch is the basis for singing.

In fact, the exercises I gave are meant for building relative pitch.

They key to the exercises is to be able to recognize the interval between two notes and deciding if you're too low, too high, or on point. It involves actively listening to your own voice instead of another instrument.

You can choose any note as the root and work from there.

Focus on the relationship between the notes. So instead of thinking "is than a A?" or "is this a B?", think about whether or not the interval (minor second, major third,etc) your are singing is correct RELATIVE to your root note.

So even if you're flat the entire song, as long as the intervals remain the same, it'll work out.

You have to build a sense of pitch INDEPENDENT from the instruments that are playing.

Even if your guitarists plays the wrong note (it happens), your sense of pitch should not falter.

It's kind of like how your left hand has to be able to play independent of the right hand with a piano.

Instead of hand independence, think of it as pitch independence.

You imagine the note and sing along to it.

So you actually do hear it in your mind.

Relative pitch is more important though. I would say build up relative pitch first and then worry about perfect pitch later.

If you get relative pitch right, you can keep transposing up/down a half-step until you hit the original key (assuming that it's in your vocal range).

But the problem still remains, how can I imagine a note right, without it being played from another instrument, if I don't have perfect pitch? Is it all in the muscle memory?And from there a mix of muscle memory and relative pitch?

One way to do it is to find a song that starts with a certain note.

Then, when you want to sing a note, think of that song.

Pretend like your about to sing that song, but only for that one note.

Getting it right is part muscle memory and part relative pitch.

Another thing to do is listen/feel to the vibrations inside your body.

They are different for every note. So when you hit a note, take a

note of the resonance/vibrations inside your body and try to repeat it.

Basically, what happens inside your body has an effect on what comes

out. So naturally it helps to pay attention to what's happening inside.

The more your body opens up the more you'll feel inside. When I started lessons,

I didn't feeling anything inside. But now I can feel the air and vibrations from my

lower belly all the way to my throat.

If you think about that, that is how a clip-on guitar tuner (the most accurate kind of tuner) works.

Instead of "listening" for the sound coming out of the guitar, it simply measures the frequency at

which the wood in the guitar is vibrating. It doesn't need to "hear" any sound at all. So if you can

somehow can get a sense of the frequency at which your body is vibrating internally, you can stay

on pitch, without listening to any sound.

Intervals are also really important. Take any scale. Sing the root and the 2nd. Sing the root and the 3rd.

Go all the way until you hit the root and an octave above. To the same thing between go downwards

(root and 7th, root and 6th, root and 5th, all the way down to root and octave below.

Do this for all scales.

When you get good at relative pitch, you can transpose the melody/phrase

until the vibrations inside your body feels correct for that whatever your target is.

Ok than, to sum up:

the things I should focus on are relative pitch and keep singing scales/melodies while I play the notes of those to check if I'm on pitch.

The first thing will make my ear better, the second will build muscle memory.

Is this right?

As long as you're not as bad as this girl, you'll be OK.

[video=youtube;XR3c0xlQIEM]

She really needs some practice

You, my friend, are in need of something called "ear training". Like others have said, part of staying on pitch is muscle memory. If you can, do daily vocal workouts (6 days a week) to build up your voice. There are many vocal workouts. So just find one that you like and stick with it (I use both the high and low workouts on Anne Peckham's "The Contemporary Singer"). Daily practice with strengthen your voice and give it more agility that will help you instinctively hit those notes. This part doesn't take any mental effort. It's just a matter of doing it every day. The other thing you need is an internal sense of where you are in the song without having to follow another instrument note-for-note. This is where ear training comes in. This week I finally reached the point where my pitch is good enough to move onto the next step. My voice teacher now wants me to build a sense of pitch without listening to other instruments. Here is this week's homework for me: Exercise #1 1)Imagine a note in my mind (for ex. the C one octave below middle C) and sing it. 2)Keep that note constant and don't adjust to the piano yet. You want to clearly hear how far off you are. 3)Adjust up or down until you hit the note. 4)Go to step 1 and use a different note Exercise #2 Second, it's a good idea to know what key a song is written. Often songs end on the root note. So for the entire song, always imagine the root note in your mind. And try to figure out how far the current note is from the root note. Think songs as movement away or towards the root note. For example, if the song is in F major (which has a B-flat), think of F always. Then, when you play the A or C above that F, keep the F note in your mind. A is the 3rd note in the scale. C is the 5th note. So when you see an A, imagine an F note in your mind. Then imagine, jumping from F to A. Think of the A, as being a movement from the F note. If you use "do-re-mi". Think of F as "do". A is "mi". C is "so". Play an F and think of singing "do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do" in your mind. For A, think "do-re-MI" and sing "mi". For C, think "do-re-mi-fa-SO" and sing "SO". Exercise #3 Third, get a solfege book. Play the first note in each measure, but sing the other notes in that measure without playing guitar. Your mission is to not drift too far on the notes not played on your guitar. Imagine moving your pitch up and down as you progess to the other notes . Lastly, I'm buying this book now for ear training. ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793581931/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER ) You can read a preview of it at Amazon.com ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0793581931/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link ). From what I've seen, I really like their ear training method. The exercises are very practical. Anyway, good luck.

Learning solfege ear training is an excellent idea, and it is taught in almost every music school in the country. Solfeggio assigns a note to a vocable, and you are probably already familiar with it. The C major scale is assigned as follows: Do©, Re(D), Mi(E), Fa(F), So(G), La(A), Ti(B), Do (C+8). The solfege method allows you to build relative pitch. Do the exercises in whatever book you get, then try to transcribe a vocal melody by starting with the first pitch and filling it in by ear.