Recommend me a vocal processor

Let me give you a little background, I play bass and do vocals in a three piece "stoner rockish" type of band. I am the only one in the band that does the vocals for the band.

About a month or so ago we went into the studio and recorded our first EP. After I laid the vocal tracks down we went back in and added a few things here and there (besides doubling the vocals of course). You can hear some of the stuff I am talking about here

www.myspace.com/1000earthyears

Anyway I would like to be able to add little things here and their to our live performance as well. I know jack about vocal processors. I do know that I don't want to spend a ton of money on something though.

I was looking at the Digitech vocal 300 because one can be had for pretty cheap. All of the reviews on this product seem to completely contradict each other. Some love it, others hate it.

So I ask you good people of Harmony Central vocal forum....should I check the Digitech out or can you recommend me something else? (that doesn't cost an arm and a leg)

I read this and realized I have one of those units...

Never really used it... it's ok.

It has some verb and delay.. you can program your own presets and scroll through them.

If you're looking to sweeten the natural sound... go for something more professional. It has a compressor and all that, but really, you'd want something proper.

If you just want some live psychedelic effects... go for it!

Well I'm sold

Have you ever had any problems with it? I keep reading stuff about how they hiss and aren't loud enough in the mix

Well I'm sold Have you ever had any problems with it? I keep reading stuff about how they hiss and aren't loud enough in the mix

The only problem I've had is that the rubber that touches the sensor underneath the pedal got compressed over time - I looked this up and it was fixed by a bit of paper.

I wouldn't recommend recording with it... but I didn't have a huge amount of hiss... try a low noise cable, maybe.

I don't see what you mean by them not being loud enough in the mix.. do you mean the noise to signal ratio isn't good enough?

To be honest I have no idea what the comment was supposed to mean either. Like I said the reviews were pretty much split down the middle

I suggest using a TC Helicon Tone Correct pedal, most reverb or effects can be added at the mixer board. The tone correct is a pitch correction pedal but it really enhances your voice in a live setting. Its got a set it and forget it interface, because the pedal has a processor that picks up ambiant noise from your vocal mic and automatically adjusts to give you the best vocal sound in the mix. They make a create pedal you can link to it as well that is for reverb and chorus. I think you can find a tone correct for around 150 bucks used. I've heard live and used once the digitech, it sucks unless you want a cheap sound, that's all it can do. Few cheesy effects, that when used make the PA squeel because they aren't EQ'd properly. If you are the only vocalist don't go cheap, your vocals are one of the main things your audience is judging you on.

I'd go with a TC Electronics Voicelive II...everything you need in one box except your own voicebox that is...

B-Bottom, these guys are giving you good advice. I started with the Digitech unit, but it's got too much hiss type noise, and even more annoying, it ramps up the levels too hot to really use a 'pro' or even 'semi-pro' situation. Yes, you can back off of the levels to reduce some of the hot levels, but you lose too much of the quality that you want when you do that.

The best thing that I've used are the TC helicon Tone correct pedal and the absolutely fantastic TC helicon Harmony G pedal for multipart harmonies. Between both of those pedals, you should be able to do whatever you want to do, and it will sound professional in a bar situation.

Go to YouTube and type in Harmony G and/or Helicon Tone correct and you'll find lots of just regular guys showing you what theirs will do.

Yeah, a great unit, but $800! The OP said that he wants to keep this cheap. The VoiceTone Correct is a great, and cheaper, alternative, and the auto-engineering feature is really worth the price.

I agree with nflea7 that reverb can easily be added through the board. The tone support that the Correct pedal provides is hard to achieve otherwise.

If you are the only one who does vocals, and if you play guitar (or keyboard), a better option might be the TC Helicon Harmony G (or Harmony M for keys), which will give you the tone support of the Correct and some of the sexy verbs/delays of the Create and at the same time generate very good harmony voices. The newer versions even have pitch correction, but I'm not very fond of it--it's nothing like the pitch correction of the Correct pedal. (Not that I'd ever need pitch correction.)

Bottom Line: TC Helicon makes very good vocal processing products. The VoiceLive 2 is the flagship--that's why it's so pricey.

I'm curious about this: Do you find that the auto-engineering feature of the Correct is a lot better than the one built into the Harmony-G? If not, the only reason to use the Correct along with the Harmony-G is the pitch correction. I "simplified" a while back and took the Correct/Create combo out of service in favor of the Harmony-G, and I didn't notice much of a difference in tonal quality. What made you decide to use Correct and Harmony-G together?

thanks for all of the advice.

I had one of those digitech multi effect pedals for my bass a long long time ago and didn't care for it. So i was a little weird about buying something similar but for vocals.

I'll be sure to check out all of your suggestions. Thanks again!

so after doing some quick research it seems as if I would want both (in a perfect world) the correct pedal (since I am the only singer) and the create (since we do some spacey and out there sounding stuff)

What do you think?

The great thing about the TC pedals is they do a small number of things really well. They aren't trying to make one pedal that does everything half assed. Depending on your cash flow, start with the tone correct, it will be the best cash you spend. Then you can add the create, or harmony xt later. They chain very well. If you have the cash, yes the VoiceLive 2 can do really amazing things, but its also the price of 4 pedals. The tone correct would be your foundation.

If you hold on, I'll make a video, demonstrating the DigitechVocal 300

Then you can get an idea

[YOUTUBE]ixzqUPxM7O0[/YOUTUBE]

thanks for the suggestion and thanks for making the video.

I bought a Voicetone correct a while back and I have not been able to get rid of feedback problems. I cannot get adecuate output without feedback. I have taken it to a couple of gigs and the SE could not get rid of the feedback either, and asked me to remove it from the chain. I like the unit, but it feeds back way to soon. If anyone has a solution, I would love to hear it.

Few suggestions, first only turn the input volume on the pedal around the 1/4 mark, you can go higher if need be for your particular mic but if you start getting the yellow or red turn it down until its 80% of the time in the green (I understand you will have peaks) Set all the rest of the knobs to 12 o clock, the processor is created to auto adjust your eq to how you sing and the ambiant noise picked up by the mic. Very cool feature, it can be a nightmare if you and the SE aren't aware of what it does. For the SE you need to let him know to turn all the eq on your channel to 12 as well, take the gain on the channel way down, as you are giving a strong signal to the board, much higher than a mic, you are using a pre-amp. He should move the fader up until a good sound can be achieved over the band. If he has any additional effects or loops he should have them off until he has you comfortably in the mix then put them in. Its a great pedal when used properly, the biggest thing is sound guys always love to tweak everything, especially the mids and highs on the vocal channels, which means wicked feedback. I run sound for my band and a few others, and I use the Correct pedal exclusive in my signal chain. If you are still getting feedback, which can happen depending on the room, speakers, stage setup etc try turning down the Shape that is the EQ function of the pedal.

"by lespaul1964:

I bought a Voicetone correct a while back and I have not been able to get rid of feedback problems. I cannot get adecuate output without feedback. I have taken it to a couple of gigs and the SE could not get rid of the feedback either, and asked me to remove it from the chain. I like the unit, but it feeds back way to soon. If anyone has a solution, I would love to hear it."

My question is, what kind of microphone are you using? I don't how about the Voice tone correct unit that you've been discussing, but if you are having a feedback problem,you have to look at the microphone. Look at the specs of your mic and compare it to other types of mics, like a mic with supercardioid pattern throughout its frequency range, (with a reduced proximity effect because of this pattern,) so it will isolate your voice and reduce surrounding sounds leaking into your mic and being amplified.

Every device you use in your vocal chain should be tested and then removed from the signal chain and tested again. By a process of elimination, you can arrive at the best sound attainable with your equipment. Sometimes, you have to buy a different microphone. That's a lot cheaper than replacing you monitors, mixers, EQ, and sound man.

Cheers,

Mike T.

i use a beta 58 or an ev 767. It happens with both. I have also tried experimenting with output, input, and all settings and the feedback is always there or on the verge, at a volume needed to be on par with the other mics in the band. Tonight I will lower output to 25% and adjust the gain at the mixer though I am pretty sure that I have tried that before. Thanks, any other comment is welcome.

If you're having problems using a Beta 58a, then that VoiceTone Correct sounds like its not going to work; at least at the settings you've tried. I own an EV N/A 767a mic too, and that has a pretty HF response, so I believe it would be more prone to feedback trouble when using a voice enhancement device. However, the Beta 58a has the specs that I was suggesting, so its probably a better choice for using add-on devices for vocals.

I don't know what kind of EQ you are using in your FOH and monitor system. I have been able to reduce feedback and improve tone control using a dual 31 band EQ in my PA. I tried using the EQ in my Studio Master mixer, but I ran into feedback problems in rooms that were primarily wood and metal where there was a lot of reflection. In those types of rooms, my KB sounds were boomy too. Sounded hollow. When I started using a stereo EQ, I cut the HF above 17Khz way down to get rid of feedback on my vocal mic, and cut out the 250 Hz frequency and that reduced the boominess (is that a word?) on my KB. The EV N/D 767a is a more prone to feedback than other mics I've used. Rooms with carpet and sound proofing sound much better.

I would be curious if you can find a solution, keep us posted.

Cheers,

Mike T.

I have the Digitech 300 and the Voice Live 2. Kept the 300 for the special effects. Pretty crazy little processor. Have better luck using dynamic mics on it though like sm57.

I have posted extensively on the digitech site about its "issues".

To combat feedback

1) turn down the input gain - the unit already will add crazy boost to the signal as it is

2) Flatten the EQ to zero on all bands and all patches - EQ at the board only

I followed the above and used a vocal 300 for years in a live setting with zero problems. It is "noisy" though, emitting a very audible hiss when all else is quiet.

I have had this, a TC Create unit and I am now rocking the VE-20 which I would totally recommend.

Setting the EQ to zero on all bands is certainly a good starting point. The goal is to have the least amount of coloring of your sound via an EQ. However, a blanket statement that you should EQ at the board only after you've set the main EQ to all bands flat won't work in every room. You have to EQ the room. Once you are getting a good basic sound in the room by setting the main EQ, then adjust individual channels to taste.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I ran into problems with rooms that had nothing to absorb sound causing a boxie sound on my KB (piano sound) and by eliminating the 250hz band just about completely, the piano sounded fine. So if I were to use your method of adjusting at the mixer level only, I would be short changing my sound. Most Mixers have 2 or 3 pots to adjust EQ and thats it. Its not enough. If it were, there would be no 31 band EQ's. The 31 band EQ helped me determine which frequencies were causing feedback in my mic. My stereo EQ has a red light above each of the 31 bands, when one or two of them light up when feedback starts, I reduce those frequencies and the feedback stops. Once I am getting a good solid sound, i can adjust the tone of my mic, maybe increase the bottom end on my KB etc at the mixer level. That would be to taste.

Most of the rooms I've played that have some sound proofing and carpet don't give me any problems. My main EQ is pretty close to flat on all bands and I adjust my channels to taste, as you suggested. Using a dual 31 band main EQ comes in handy when working with poor sounding rooms.

Cheers,

Mike T.

School for thought.

Mike T.

To clarify

1) I am speaking specifically about this vocal pedal which has proven to be particularly problematic.

2) I am talking about the EQ on the pedal itself; certainly EQing the vocal channel at the board is fine. And by no means was I saying to flatten the EQ on the board at all - either on the channel for the vocal or the main EQ.

The problem people run into (again, with this pedal in particular) is that the EQ settings can vary wildly from one patch to another and with the crazy effects this can cause all sorts of problems. The SE can't chase these down from the board very easily unless the EQ is flattened on all patches on the pedal itself.

Presumably you are talking about 2 or 3 of EQ pots per channel yes? Our mixer has 9 bands of EQ on the main and I think that is pretty typical...