Desparate Cry - is there ANY hope?

I need some help and advice. As you can see below, I can't sing. That has not stopped me from trying. I have been playing music, primarily guitar, my whole life, and played full time in bands for a bit. Never really sang in public, though, for obvious reasons.

Although I always wished I could sing better, most of my energies went into my guitar playing, and I didn't have too much time to worry about it. The only problems arose when I cut demos and sketches in order to share my original stuff. I had to put the vocals down, and was constantly embarrassed when the time came to play the thing for the singers and musicians in whatever band was going to play it.

I never realized how bad I was until recently, when I started doing some video's on my new macbook-- because it is so easy to just turn on imovie and play. The result is below. Got me to thinking-- can it be improved enough for a live gig, or is that just absurd? I can actually, believe it or not, get it to sound ok, on rare occasion, when I double the tracks and eq and compress the hell out of them in a pro tools mix. But live? Well, you can see for yourself.

There are some great singers on this forum, and some smart ones, so I figured what the hell, maybe I can get some objective advice. Please don't spare my feelings-- I know it sucks, and you won't offend me. But if you see any areas that can be, and are worth, improving, it might help.

I picked a song that really does not spare-- maybe even highlights-- my weaknesses (not hard to do). My break point is D-- the one on the b string, 3rd fret of the guitar (sorry, not sure if that is D3 or D4? - not a keyboard/theory guy). The high note I am molesting in the last measure is a G above that D (high e-string, 3rd fret). I can falsetto (although it sounds more like a crime victim on valium) up to about the next highest D.

Well that is my story. I am really sorry for what you are about to be subjected to, and I appreciate your forbearance!

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

We can't watch the video, I am afraid.

You have set it to private.

doh! subliminal fear of exposure or something-- should be fixed now!

You know, man, it could be SO much worse.

Really, I am not saying that just to cheer you up.

So don't come down on yourself too hard.

First off, it sounds like you aren't singing with a lot of confidence, which I totally understand, so it's almost as if you're guaranteeing yourself a less than satisfactory performance.

Also, it seems you haven't quite become comfortable with your vocal range and I don't know if anyone here can help you as much as a qualified vocal teacher ever could.

We can only give you words of wisdom through text, however a teacher could help you in a way that we never could or can.

However, I must say I am only a death metal vocalist and will probably be shoo'ed away by the real singers any minute now.

Dude....first off tone down the drama...you aren't even bad:thu:

In fact you sound a decent singer.

I would work on your breathe control and try to not focus too much

on the guitar (if you are)

Singing above all else should be fun, so make it so #1!

Not bad at all, try something more vocally challenging.

Lol! Ok I will tone down the drama. Maybe it's not as bad as I thought? I was kinda hopin' someone would say that. I am really self-conscious about it. I am just so used to playing that it feels funny to sing without the guitar, but it is easier to do one at a time-- which is how I record.

Also, it's true ThisIsExhile-- I lack confidence and my presentation is sort of underwhelming. I think I will try to work on that. Maybe if I can improve the vox, that will sort of follow along, as well.

I have seen a lot of advice recommending lessons in general on this board, while lurking, and in fact I live near Berklee School of Music in Boston, so I called and got a list of instructors. I was wondering if it was even worth the effort, but all I needed was this little bit of encouragement that I have a chance at being passable-- I'm not shooting for the stars or anything. Just having a couple of people say "you might be ok with some work" means a lot to me. Even if everyone else pans me, I am psyched about that-- you have no idea.

So, thank you guys.

Of course, man.

Of course.

Singing may require as much effort as playing guitar well, perhaps more.

I remember benefiting greatly from singing videos on You Tube, and especially from singing exercises. You might search the web, a local music store or local library for a singing instruction book with audio CD of exercises. You might also play scales on keyboard - I play scales on guitar - and sing along like the vocal teachers do on the videos.

Singing scales allows me to learn pitch. I suspect even an ordinary voice sounds good if it is on key.

I think recording and listening to my own singing helps find things that I need to work on and provides a way to monitor improvement.

Pay attention to posture and breathing from the diaphragm. Many vocal flaws are related to not enough air flow through the throat.

Smoking is probably the worst thing that a singer can do.

Sing with other singers and learn from them. A few singing lessons might help. Making friends with professional singers in your area might be constructive; ask a professional singer for help and they might give you 10 minutes of their time because they like you. Follow a local singer, a band; become a fan. Musicians are sometimes willing to help each other.

THEN GO SING IN THE PARK. Take your guitar. If people stay and listen then you know you are doing something right.

Wow, I expected a lot worse! Good advice from everyone above.

YES, you sing well enough now to sing in public

YES, with lessons & practice you can improve dramatically.

I'd especially second YeahDoIt's advice about recording & listening back. Your biggest problem--by far--is confidence. You're simply facing the common burden of the vocalist: Many of us cannot abide the tone of our voices, and we take this response (which can, as you and I both know, rise to repulsion) as objective, but it's really not. The only way to get over this is to listen to yourself constantly--I mean every day. Over time, you'll grow to like your voice. Sinatra felt this way, Streisand, Lennon, Hendrix--I could go on.

In the meantime, treat yourself nicely. Your current setup seems designed to emphasize your flaws. Gear matters, especially for those struggling to build confidence. The very easy video-making function of the iMac can cause trouble, as the built-in mic is crap, and if you then don't sweeten your voice with a little bit of reverb you're setting yourself up (). There's no reason to torment yourself by using poor audio quality before you get used to the tone of your voice. It's cruel, man, cruel. Get a decent mic and record into GarageBand; use some of the vocal presets....

See, it sounds better already!

More great advice, thank you! I just started making the videos, which is what got me depressed to begin with, but I am starting to get used to (or maybe accept) the reality of my vox- so I see the point about getting familiar with it. I have some decent gear, though, so maybe I'll use a good mic and some 'verb from now on for that. I didn't want to mask anything for the purpose of getting some honest criticism though, this time. I will also start doing the scales and arpeggios (suggested by YeahDoIt-- along with a bunch of other really positive suggestions)-- that's good advice, don't know why I have not been doing that, seems obvious now that I think about it. Guess one of the problems is that I just haven't put enough work into it. Guitar and other instruments seemed to come so much easier, but in retrospect I put a lot more time into them.

Jersey Jack, can't tell you how psyched I am with your encouragement (although I still am worried about singing in public-- my voice just cracks so much, and I have so much trouble with my break point and above).

I honestly expected a much less encouraging response-- something along the lines of "some people have the wrong tone for singing," or "it's not too likely, but if you work really hard it might get good enough for your pets."

I'm gonna start working on everyones suggestions this afternoon. Hopefully in a few months there will be some sign of progress-- in which case I will post up a new vid (with a bit of reverb this time).

I also have discovered the You Tube vids, and am going to order a book or two, in addition to getting a few lessons, and just throw everything I can at the problem for awhile.

I thought you sounded fine. Better than most guys I hear at open mics. This perfromance was definitely open mic worthy.

You have a goot timbre in your voice. The instrument is definitely there, you just need to learn how to play it better.

You sound good man. I expected way worse.

A few off pitch moments, but nothing crazy.

In fact if you played that song at a bar, I would sit up, shut up, drink my beer and listen and enjoy

I like your tone as well, its all good.

Not brutal at all. A little "talky", which can be a style.

Work on your breath support and opening up a little - you sound sort of pinched, like you're not letting everything resonate like it could.

I didn't think it was that bad - I only winced twice, and that's pretty good for noob videos here (actually less than the one I posted, but we tend to be harder on ourselves...).

Keep at it - you can dooo eeeeet!

Brian V.

Wait, man.. I remember some of your stuff. You sang "What Is Love?" pretty well, was loving that whole death metal south park thing. Any new stuff?

By the way, if you simply SING near the edge of your comfortable SINGING range, you'll eventually get so used to singing there without moving a muscle in your mouth or throat, and what you used to have to raise your tone for, you could probably sing with a minimal raise, and you can therefore raise it even higher. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, but that's how I got to where I am now, wherever that is.. lol

That's if we're talking about range. I can't see the video, so I couldn't really help you with anything specific or point out anything in your voice, because there's nothing there. Literally.

Thanks for the encouragement! I am going balls to the wall now, and practicing scales and arpeggios, as well as experimenting with my break point and resonance. That pinched quality that someone mentioned-- I have noticed that too, definitely needs work, but I am not sure how to get over it. I have noticed it has decreased slightly as I learn to get my sound forward and up into my.... er, head, sinuses?... not sure of the technical actuality... when I get into the top part of my range.

I am still looking for a teacher-- haven't had time to do the leg work because of work, but I have a list of names. Also, got some books on my shopping list at Amazon. I am really curious to see what I sound like in 6 months or a year, with some work. Wish I could practice this stuff (along with my other musical endeavors) full time, but, you know, job, family.

you're not bad on the guitar and a lot of guys can't sing and play very well anyway. Just have fun with it. That's what I do. I play in church and it's been one of the most gratifying things I've ever done. I couldn't imagine life without music. It's the universal language that transcends all boundaries.

Amen brother.

Wait, man.. I remember some of your stuff. You sang "What Is Love?" pretty well, was loving that whole death metal south park thing. Any new stuff? By the way, if you simply SING near the edge of your comfortable SINGING range, you'll eventually get so used to singing there without moving a muscle in your mouth or throat, and what you used to have to raise your tone for, you could probably sing with a minimal raise, and you can therefore raise it even higher. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, but that's how I got to where I am now, wherever that is.. lol That's if we're talking about range. I can't see the video, so I couldn't really help you with anything specific or point out anything in your voice, because there's nothing there. Literally.

Ha!

That wasn't me that was my buddy Unstrung.

And yes, he's still doing that stuff.

Me and him and a bunch of others have this silly little internet band project going on.

We're trying to cover as many genres and styles as possible with our stuff.

Here's our first fully completed song, we have more in the works.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1008254&songID=8360424

Unstrung programmed the drums and played guitar on a lot of it.

I did the Death Metal vocals on this one.