If someone admits right up front that he or she isn't really trying...

Then why should I be bothered to listen to that person's clips?

Who's this about, Eightstring?

Oh, Oh....pick me! I know the answer. The reference is to our new member jc71corvette, who posted this:

Actually the point relates to recent concern about responding to bad clips. At what point does a poster merit the hard truth rather than the soft truth? I've been a vocal proponent of the soft truth because I genuinely believe that anyone with desire and dedication can learn to sing decently. I also believe that many would-be singers have tender egos and could easily be driven to give it up entirely (in despair) by the hard truth. So while in some cases the hard truth might be correct in musical terms, it is rarely correct in moral terms. Slapdowns are normally not cool.

But there are occasions when the hard truth is appropriate--just very few, IMHO.

No one in particular, Grace, just more of a general observation, although Jersey Jack is right in that jc71corvette seems to be the most recent to do this.

Yeah, when someone is trying their hardest, and posting clips saying, "This is the best I can do. Can someone critique me or help me out?"

Well, then, I'm all about the encouragement and gentle guidance, even if the clip sounds god-awful.

But when someone says something like, "Oh, I'm just messing around, not really trying. What do you think of my voice?", it kind of annoys me that someone wants to waste my time with a clip that the poster already KNOWS isn't their best (or maybe IS their best, but they're just making excuses).

What's the use in critiquing something that doesn't represent what the singer can really do?

I believe it's some kind of defense mechanism. The person who does this has to write something like that to their post because they are not very confident in their ability and convincing themselves that their clip is not their best makes it easier somehow to make their voice public. That's my theory. lol

That is a reasonable theory, and something to think about.

Hey buddy, be an adult, its called private messages.

ANd how many times do I have to say it, it was a experiment. NOt my best. I just wanted commets on the tone of my voice

I recemend this being closed, i consider it an insult.

You're kidding, right?

Yes, you did say, that you were just experimenting, but I also said that this thread was not directed specifically at you. "Man up" a little and don't take it so personally.

Hell, you should see some of the posts on this forum that were directed at me.

Does it look it? Private messages are there for a reason so this crap does not come up.

Please read my edit.

I think this could be relevant to me too. I post clips fairly regularly, and want feedback and stuff, but am I really trying? Yes and no. I am trying in that I’m trying to sing as best I can right now with what I’ve got and what I feel I can already do fairly well, but I STILL haven’t gotten around to having proper lessons, which I know is the only way I will improve.

I also never warm up (I’m not even sure quite HOW to), but wouldn’t tend to post a clip if I’m “raspy” or something else was wrong (unless I wanted a rasp in the song of course) But then I wouldn’t mention it as some sort of negative reason the clip’s not the best or anything.

With regard to the soft and hard truth, I also agree that the soft truth is best in most cases. There’s just no reason to be harsh or overly blunt with someone…I guess the only time MAYBE some more blunt advice is useful is if the poster is very aware and experienced with their own capabilities and shortcomings and has basically surpassed the soft truth long ago, you know? Like, on the Idol shows for instance. Sometimes you get more useful feedback from the “mean judge”.

And Williamz, yep, that’s exactly it for me. The defence mechanism.

I like to call the early stages of American Idol "the parade of the deluded".

Fortunately, this place mostly isn't like that...but there are times when it sort of resembles it.

Brian V.

I'm not much different, except that I don't post clips as frequently.

I whined about monitors over in my clip thread (it did affect my singing, but it's really an excuse more than anything). The criticism of my singing was 100% correct, though. As pretty much everyone's criticism has been of whichever "noob of the week" is posting a clip.

I tend to be the mean judge, in general, but I try to be as polite as possible when I'm giving the hard truth.

I failed miserably in jc71corvette's thread, but that was mostly because I was annoyed that he started whining that we weren't paying attention to his caveats, which was patently false...

As for you: I think you're a good singer with a cool voice. With a good vocal teacher, you could be a great singer. If you have the time in your life to invest in becoming a great singer, you can do it, if you want to. I think I'm the same (when I'm feeling good about myself).

What I can do works for me right now. I'm just kind of lazy and complacent on top of being a crappy time manager and being very busy with my job and family.

I keep playing with the idea of taking voice lessons, because we have some really good teachers here in Austin, but I am still unsure of how to work that and practicing what they teach me into my schedule without sacrificing time with my kids (which is most important to me right now).

Brian V.

I've been trying really hard to get people to listen to my clips and give feedback. I got one reply

Thanks Eightstring. 

In terms of Idol, I didn’t mean the earlier “auditions” where all the deluded folks appear. I meant later on and all throughout the show, when there’s usually 1 mean judge, 1 realistic judge and 1 nice judge. And to me, although the nice judge is lovely, I kind of don’t find their advice that interesting usually. It’s too sugar-coated. I want the real stuff, but said in a constructive way.

Schizo, I think I just live in a state of partial fantasy all the time…I can sing ok right now and love doing it, so I’m in my comfort zone so to speak. But I am also very dissatisfied with my voice and have been for quite some time. Since I became more aware of how I actually sound and the problems I have. So to fix that, I need to get lessons. Then there’s the deluded, fantasy-dwelling part of my mind that thinks…partially that I can’t be bothered “working” that hard and maybe somehow I’ll improve magically by myself, and partially that if I got lessons, I’d be able to finally break free of this sort of…restricted and dissatisfied world I currently live in with regard to my voice. Then there’s the realistic but somewhat fearful and insecure and negative part of my mind that fears vocal lessons because what if the teacher isn’t on my wavelength (there aren’t that many here and even less that I can actually get to since I don’t drive and public transport absolutely SUCKS here), and what if I discover that what I am now…what if that’s all I ever can be? *tearful*

I think also with lessons, seeing as I am so paranoid and desperate as it is with regard to my free time, I want to spend as much of it as possible doing things I love and that relax me…singing, making my own music, playing The Sims. Lol. But I feel like…I’m just wasting time. I mean, it’s not a waste if I ENJOY it, and I do, but at the same time, what is my actual goal? I want to make REAL music that I actually LIKE and want to listen to. And I can do that right now, BUT I want to sing better. I mean, right now yeah, I’ve put clips on here, lots of ‘em, but I never EVER sing in front of anyone, not even my partner. If I was confident in how I sounded, I’d be able to do that. And I’m so changeable too, vocally. Not meaning what most people mean, like the time of day or other things affecting the voice, but rather, I mean that with each song I do, I never know how it’ll sound. Some songs I am ok with how I sing them. Others, VOMIT!!! I want that to go away if I got voice lessons. Somehow.

Basically I feel I’m trying to do things (make music, sing with that music) backwards. I need singing lessons AND keyboard / piano lessons before I can fulfil my purpose. But because I’m so lazy and enjoy doing what I’m doing already (though obviously am frustrated by my lackings), I find it hard to push myself.

kberanek, I don’t even remember seeing your clip thread! I’ll have a look now.

Then again, if you don't want to listen to it and critique it, then don't. I don't see the necessity of starting a thread about it, though.

Why should you waste your time? Why did you waste your time in starting this thread? Because you're looking for other opinions.

That's the nature of posting a question.

The same reason that someone else asks for opinions of their voice, whether they're really 'giving it all they've got' or not.

I think the premise of the thread is that I'm not at all inclined to listen to a clip unless someone is really trying. Maybe others on the forum have the same opinion.

So I was hoping that MAYBE by stating it "out loud", so to speak, it might have a positive effect by causing some forum members to give it more effort before posting new clips, making it more likely that I (and others) would be willing to listen to, and constructively critique those clips.

But if not, it's no skin off my nose. I can ignore clips all day long.