Members LordBTY Posted October 23, 2009 Members Share Posted October 23, 2009 In western culture, they are used to add grit or create harsh tones (metal vocals) In eastern culture, they are used to create a series of overtones (throat singing) I'm currently trying to develop the coordination via 'heavily sighing' and allowing them to come into play over time... Who uses them here? How do you use them? Coming from south-east england, there aren't many qualified teachers who specialize in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 Heavily sighing? When I read this, I don't honestly know what it is exactly, but I recalled today on a particular annoying and unpleasant bus ride home, I sighed about 3 times in this very heavy, almost throaty way. Like a sort of ughhhh sound but like an old man... Sorry, completely useless post! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted October 24, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yes, it's something that's difficult to get right for me... I keep on using the wrong part of the throat... but I'm getting there http://www.busker-kibbutznik.org/khoomei/HOW-TO/CC015_kargwork.mp3 This is what I'm talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 I do metal vocals. I can do low growls/barks, Pig squeals (and weird lowish pigish sounds which are AWESOME), High screams/shrieks. It's all practice really. Find a metal singer you realllllly like the sound of, then experiment while trying to copy their stuff. If what you're doing hurts your throat, stop. That simple. Stop doing it that way. Try other ways to make a similar sound, with practice you'll improve your tone to what you're after. Also, a lot of people say that using alot of volume when doing metal vocals is bad. Thsi isn't completly true. Of course you don't want to push it too hard, becuase this could seriously damage your voice. But getting good volume will also help improve your tone (Like a tube amp ). So don't be afriad to push a bit. This is of course if Metal vocals is what you're trying to do. If not...well...I can't help haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted October 24, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 I do metal vocals. I can do low growls/barks, Pig squeals (and weird lowish pigish sounds which are AWESOME), High screams/shrieks. It's all practice really. Find a metal singer you realllllly like the sound of, then experiment while trying to copy their stuff. If what you're doing hurts your throat, stop. That simple. Stop doing it that way. Try other ways to make a similar sound, with practice you'll improve your tone to what you're after. Also, a lot of people say that using alot of volume when doing metal vocals is bad. Thsi isn't completly true. Of course you don't want to push it too hard, becuase this could seriously damage your voice. But getting good volume will also help improve your tone (Like a tube amp ). So don't be afriad to push a bit. This is of course if Metal vocals is what you're trying to do. If not...well...I can't help haha. You sure you're not using the vocal fry technique? Because pig squealing is most definitely vocal fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Throatsinger Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 You sure you're not using the vocal fry technique?Because pig squealing is most definitely vocal fry Well, kinda sorta almost not really. Some folks may say that, and unfortunately, what is considered fact in vocal study is often rather "what folks say." Consensus is just lacking in many regards. That's the state of the art. I'd say that squealing as you mention is vocal fry in the same sense that running is walking or up is an extension of down. I won't discuss metal/death vocals and such because, well, I teach what I know or at least am familiar with. To engage the ventricular folds as in Tibetan monk chant or throat-singing such as kargyraa, one simply constricts the upper larynx at the level of said folds. This brings the vent. folds into the airstream causing them to vibrate. These styles always use the vent. folds together with the vocal folds to produce the characteristic sounds. The ventricular folds alone produce a sound generally considered to be musically useless, and also unsustainable for more than a few seconds due to minimal resistance to the airstream. I see that you've joined my forum. Welcome! You'll find a lot of good discussion on such topics; just search and peruse. There is some discussion of "death growl/grunt" as well. As always, read critically. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Heavily sighing? When I read this, I don't honestly know what it is exactly, but I recalled today on a particular annoying and unpleasant bus ride home, I sighed about 3 times in this very heavy, almost throaty way. Like a sort of ughhhh sound but like an old man...Sorry, completely useless post! lol God, do you ever land?LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Whatever do you mean, sir? I am not airborne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 *snort of laughter* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 *snort of laughter* You get it, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members romvert Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Whatever do you mean, sir? I am not airborne. That depends on one's stand point... nothing bad, I meant it in a "cute" way. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted October 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Well, kinda sorta almost not really. Some folks may say that, and unfortunately, what is considered fact in vocal study is often rather "what folks say." Consensus is just lacking in many regards. That's the state of the art. I'd say that squealing as you mention is vocal fry in the same sense that running is walking or up is an extension of down. I won't discuss metal/death vocals and such because, well, I teach what I know or at least am familiar with. To engage the ventricular folds as in Tibetan monk chant or throat-singing such as kargyraa, one simply constricts the upper larynx at the level of said folds. This brings the vent. folds into the airstream causing them to vibrate. These styles always use the vent. folds together with the vocal folds to produce the characteristic sounds. The ventricular folds alone produce a sound generally considered to be musically useless, and also unsustainable for more than a few seconds due to minimal resistance to the airstream. I see that you've joined my forum. Welcome! You'll find a lot of good discussion on such topics; just search and peruse. There is some discussion of "death growl/grunt" as well. As always, read critically. Cheers, Thank you for help I've been using the Brian Grover crash course to achieve a kargyraa tone. I also had a go at the khoomei voice. I'm not sure whether it's right... I seem to have a tickling feeling in my throat when I do it (but I hear that will go in time?) I have yet to post on your forum yet but I will do in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Throatsinger Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Yes, I know Brian for many years and he was a student of mine. His singing is ok but I greatly prefer my own approach (no surprise there). See this thread for a theory about the throat irritation: http://www.khoomei.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1060&p=6494#p6494 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted October 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Yeah... I saw that... Right now I'm going for a day with little to no talking 'cause my throat felt kind of scratchy (might also be due to lack of sleep) I'm pretty sure I've got the right area, though... I just need to develop it a little better... Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 27, 2009 Members Share Posted October 27, 2009 You sure you're not using the vocal fry technique?Because pig squealing is most definitely vocal fry I'm unsure as to what I'm using when squealing. But when doing growls/barks etc I'm doing what "Thraotsinger" explains below. I do use vocal fry for very low, gurgling sounds (Of course), but I do use the false chords as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted October 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 27, 2009 Well the conventional method of pig squealing is inhaling air to create vocal fry while adjusting the shape of the pharynx to create distinctive overtones. It can also be done via exhaling but it might be harder to come across the specific tone(though, it's less harmful to your throat that way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well the conventional method of pig squealing is inhaling air to create vocal fry while adjusting the shape of the pharynx to create distinctive overtones.It can also be done via exhaling but it might be harder to come across the specific tone(though, it's less harmful to your throat that way) No no no! I do not inhale. I'm aware of the problems it can cause. Also the volume from inhales as apposed to exhales leaves somethgin to be desired... Squeals ARE easier to get a specific tone via inhaling. The other guitarist in my band does inhale squeals, sounds incredible, but it's not what I'm after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LordBTY Posted October 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 No no no! I do not inhale. I'm aware of the problems it can cause. Also the volume from inhales as apposed to exhales leaves somethgin to be desired...Squeals ARE easier to get a specific tone via inhaling. The other guitarist in my band does inhale squeals, sounds incredible, but it's not what I'm after. All quiet exhales are vocal fry. Do you use another part of the throat, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 That depends on one's stand point... nothing bad, I meant it in a "cute" way. Cheers. I know, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indytoons Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 You sure you're not using the vocal fry technique?Because pig squealing is most definitely vocal fry Or Ned Beatty Sorry, couldn't resist:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thegreyfox Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 All quiet exhales are vocal fry.Do you use another part of the throat, too? I get warmth (not burning) just under my jaw when doing squeals. None of my screaming hurts unless I put too much ooomph into it, or do it for too long. When i first started I did have trouble keep my breath and almost blacked out a few times from holding screams too long :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wow, lol. I once screamed (normal scream, not weird scream) for about a minute or something. It was fun. The only time I've ever almost blacked out was when I tried to hold my breath for as long as I could and then after a while of lying there, didn't really feel the need for air anymore and then noticed my vision going dark so I thought Oh dear, I better breathe again! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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