What are singers actually doing when they sing “wrong”?

I was just thinking of Stevie Nicks singing Rhiannon (and other things, but especially this song) on stage night after night back in the late 70s, and towards the end of the song when she did it live back then, she’d really go crazy and get right into it, and she’s since said that she shredded her voice and couldn’t do that anymore after a while. She also said she later on got coaching and it helped her sing in a less destructive way.

So my question is, when singers do stuff like this, how exactly are they singing “wrong”? Like, when Stevie Nicks did that song, what exactly was she actually doing? Obviously she was kind of shouting and getting into it, but…you know, if there is a way to do that and NOT hurt your voice, what was she doing that WAS hurting her voice, you know?

No idea. I'm sure I sing wrong a lot when I use too much grit, then again maybe not. I'd also like to know, though. :s

Got a link?

I think to save her voice Stevie Nicks needed to learn to sing like a human instead of a goat.

But seriously...I think there are tons of ways people can sing and hurt themselves. Too much tension, too little breath support, straining your chords to get grit, shouting, improper hydration...

I know there have been times when I've been singing Nirvana, AC/DC, or Guns & Roses where I've gone way too far and hurt myself a little.

Fortunately, my voice has always healed, and I've learned more and more where my limit on that sort of thing is, and figured out how to get those sounds without pushing as hard as I had been.

If you open yourself to learning proper techniques (and your limits), you reduce the potential for injury. Stevie obviously did that if she isn't getting hurt anymore.

But she still sounds like a goat.

Brian V.

LMAO, what is this thing about Stevie singing like a goat?! I don’t think she sounds like a goat. I can sort of hear a BIT maybe a certain fast vibrato bleating type of singing style, but I like her voice personally. Lol.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone knew the physical specifics for what singers are doing to themselves when they strain, or use too much air to push out, or are tense, or use too much grit. What’s actually going on with the vocal cords and stuff, you know?

I’ll post the Youtube clip when I get home. (if you type in Fleetwood Mac Rhiannon 1977 it should bring it up though) I think for Stevie back then it was using too much volume to hear herself over the instruments, getting carried away and being too loud that way too, and pushing too hard.

LMAO, I've been trying to find that episode forever and I've never seen it. lol

Here ya go, Dthraco...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KIlPUCSwE&feature=related

It was 1976, not 1977. D'oh.

You know, I'd love to hear you sing Landslide sometime soon when you feel you could do it, Grace. I tried awhile back, but it sounded "meh" to me by my "always out of reach" standards.

Speaking of Stevie, here's an old bit of her song Angel that I did...heheh.

http://www.box.net/shared/f91i5nc0a4

Ah, I just listened to some of your stuff on your Soundclick page, and you've got a really good voice!!!! How old are you again? It sounds much older than I think you are. (you've also got excellent song influences...Fleet Foxes, Stevie Nicks, etc)

16.. Funny thing is, I've always hated my voice, up until this past year. Now I can stand it, but it's nothing special to me in particular. I guess I sound a lot like a mix of my main influences (vedder, cornell, staley, buckley, ect.) which helps to stand my voice. I actually almost cried when I first heard myself recorded, although my friend thought I was crazy.. I thought "I'll never be good with a voice like this.." In my head, at the time, my dreams were already shattered.

But I haven't given up.

Ok, here's Landslide for you. Fresh off the mic. lol

Sorry, I wanted to put it on that Box website, but it refuses to load anything right now. *groan*

www.soundclick.com/auntacid (it'll be in there amongst my songs. Pretty much none of them have any words yet. It's called Landslide. lol Funny that)

S'alright. Thanks.

EDIT: Wait.. I don't see landslide, but I see a bunch of funny titles and upon clicking one about a lamb rose, I'm hearing some upliftingly ethereal music. You should add some shoegaze/dreampop elements into your ethereal music, it'd work to great effect. Of course, only for the nicer stuff, not the rougher stuff. ;p

Nevermind, found it. Listening, and it sounds great, even if you think it's too soft. I think your voice has great emotion behind it, a very sad melancholic feel of loss and longing and regret that I really love.

Heheh, Landslide will be on there now. I was ahead of my slow computer when I posted that.

Thanks for the thing about my music. All those weird titles are my creations. Most very brief. Stem of Love (very weird, lol) is the longest one, and the only almost semi-finished one in there.

(Lamb Rose is a joke about Nicole Kidman's daughter who she called Sunday Rose. I keep thinking she's called Sunday ROAST, and that reminds me of Lamb Roast, so...Lamb Rose. lol)

Well, I like the feel of a lot of 'em. If I can give a random opinion, well, the drums in "Whose Hair Am I Eating" would be a lot better if they didn't stand out so much, if they were a bit more subtle. Like, heavy and big but more bass, not so much treble so that it stands out on the front grounds. Not sure how to say it.. Not that it's bad at all, just a personal suggestion. I'm gonna listen to some more.

I'm sending you a PM in a minute, too.

Did you listen to your requested Landslide, man?

I think to save her voice Stevie Nicks needed to learn to sing like a human instead of a goat. But seriously...I think there are tons of ways people can sing and hurt themselves. Too much tension, too little breath support, straining your chords to get grit, shouting, improper hydration... I know there have been times when I've been singing Nirvana, AC/DC, or Guns & Roses where I've gone way too far and hurt myself a little. Fortunately, my voice has always healed, and I've learned more and more where my limit on that sort of thing is, and figured out how to get those sounds without pushing as hard as I had been. If you open yourself to learning proper techniques (and your limits), you reduce the potential for injury. Stevie obviously did that if she isn't getting hurt anymore. But she still sounds like a goat. Brian V.

PAHA!

I never really listened to her before, but OMG... she really does

Must be what the south park thing was about...

But yeah, singers can do all sorts wrong... perhaps she was raising her larynx too high (how 'wrong' this is being a controversial subject) pushing too hard, singing from her throat... maybe even jaw and/or external muscular tension..

Could be alot

Thanks for the link.

She's forcing her chest voice too high, not using a mix. Tightens her throat and forces those notes out with a rasp.

You can hear her do it at:

:39

:46

1:06

1:14

2:10

2:14

2:17

Later in the song she switches to just head voice, no chest at all. You can hear the transition at 5:15. She stays in head voice the remainder of the song.

No doubt she learned how to make a mix, and that's what saved her voice later on.

Goat - Yeah, she has a TON of vibrato. Very goat-ish.

So...let me get this straight...HOW do your force your chest voice too high? How do you know when you're even singing in chest voice? To use this song with Stevie as an example, how was she singing in chest voice during the verses and stuff? And how can you tell that she switched to just head voice for the remainder of the song after 5:15? That was when she was "shouting" towards the end and stuff...so that was head voice? How do you know? lol

Aside from anything...the time things where you say she's pushing with chest voice, that's the sound I WANT. Damn. lol

Sorry, I was just looking again at that clip, and the next thing she sings after 5:15 seems somehow lighter and not as "gutsy"...is that it? Are there any other ways to know which she's using (chest / head)?

Sorry, one more thing!! That end bit after 5:15, that's the bit that she says wrecker her voice...so...singing in head voice is bad then, in that case? Is that it? Ugh.

...oh my god, sorry, but just ONE more thing! lol. Stevie also hasn't done that ending or even sung the bits where you mentioned the time markers for a LOOONG time since way back then. Hmm. Just to point that out.

arent you one of the ones who was against rules? basically everything should be relaxed ,no locked jaw ,no tightened up turtle-neck chest muscles relaxed ,gut muscles doing all the work ,everything else above them is a resonater the gut being the bellows. There are singers who do everything wrong and are great. I think most great singers do it "right" though,at least most the time. Really great ones might do it wrong and right for different inflections . I dont know.

ps Love Stevie Nicks voice,.. and Emmylous too.

Yeah, I don't think Stevie looked very relaxed in that clip. lol.

passion is the best ,if its not deluded and she was for real.Mariah Carey is passinate singer too ,shes a big dumb sickening kid

Uh...yes. I happen to agree with you there. You seem somewhat of an angry fellow though.