Vocal Critique Needed of cover song

Updated first post to include 2 other covers.

Hey guys,

I have only been serious about singing for 8 months. I've always enjoyed singing in the car, shower, etc, but now I am actually using Protools and some decent HW.

Can you guys critique my vocals and mix?

My input chain is:

AKG perception 200 mic

Presonus TubePre

Mbox mini2

Here is my cover song:

http://sites.google.com/site/tsitalon1/Home/file-access/03Smooth.mp3?attredirects=0

Thanks guys! I have more for your torture...umm...I mean enjoyment.

Easy:

http://sites.google.com/site/tsitalon1/Home/file-access/Easy4.mp3?attredirects=0

Don't love you no more (acapella): - rough draft..just to see how it would sound

http://sites.google.com/site/tsitalon1/Home/file-access/I%27m_sorry.mp3?attredirects=0

I'm no singer to offer "critique", but I'm a listener.

The biggest thing I will say is that the vocals are too far down in the mix.

The vocals are "big" in this song, but you're drowned by the instruments. It's the audio equivalent of you standing on a stage surrounded by the instruments instead of being way out front engaging with the crowd with the band behind you in the stand.

There's something subtle about the way that your phrasing isn't punching the lines out strongly - almost as if you go "soft" at the end of phrases, where they ought if anything to be getting "bigger" at the end of the phrase. I could be wrong, but quite often I felt that the last word of phases was softer than the rest. But at least you don't do that common "pitch sag" at the end of the phrase

That said, it's quite listenable - you can definitely sing. In a bar setting this version would be fine. I wouldn't buy this recording to listen to, for the reasons above.

GaJ

I'm just going to be honest - don't be insulted.

Singing:

You're mostly talking your way through the song...that's my first critique. You sing notes here and there, but then you're mostly talking your way through the verse and chorus (and your pitch is kind of shaky in that part). You do sing the pre-chorus part, and it's not bad, but it shows that you need some more practice. The harmony parts aren't quite right...I think the note choices are off here and there.

As for the mix:

The vocal sounds kind of like it's in a can - I don't know if it's a phase issue or some application of an effect. It's clear, but it has that "can-like" tone that makes it sound kind of harsh.

Did you build the backing track? If so, it's decent. The guitar parts sound good. The horns sound a little keyboardy (which is pretty much unavoidable).

I'd work on your breath support and actually singing the notes instead of sort of talk-singing them.

You do have a good ear for phrasing, but I'd watch it with cutting off the notes too soon - it makes it sound clipped and weird. I think that has a lot to do with the talk-sing thing I was talking about before. If you were really singing the notes, they'd have a little more tone and body to them and be easier to hold.

Overall, I'd say you have some homework to do - most of it revolving around making sure you're singing things and not talking with pitches.

Talking with pitch makes things sound a little "Nick Lava" (think Bill Murray on SNL back in the 70s: "Star Waaars...") - very lounge-singer.

You're halfway there, though, because you do have a good ear, and with a little guidance, you should have no problem applying that to your singing skills once you focus them. I had the same problem when I first started singing - I sort of talk-sang everything.

Best of luck!

Brian V.

To be fair - this is a very "talky" song that he's covering... are you familiar with the original?

GaJ

updated first post with 2 other covers

Intimately - I covered it for years. Rob Thomas sang it, though - it was more "talky" than most songs, for sure, but that's also what makes it more susceptible to beginners talking their way through it.

He could sing it more than he did - that's kind of my point.

Brian V.

Easy's much more singy, but you got the words wrong (sorry - pet peeve of mine). Sounds kind of nasal, but much better than Smooth.

Still has the sort of clipped thing, which might just be part of how you sing.

Pitch is kind of all over the place, but not annoyingly so - it would work in the context of a band where your vocal would be a little more balanced in the mix than this recording.

I didn't like the last one at all, but I'm biased because I can't stand that song. It'd be unfair to criticize it because I couldn't even make it through the whole song without turning it off.

It's more the song's fault than yours, but based on what I heard I can guarantee you wouldn't be through to Hollywood if you went on American Idol.

Of course, I don't think I would get through, either, and I do this semi-professionally.

I'm sure I sound a bit dickish but I'd rather run the risk of doing that and being honest than being nice and letting you be mediocre.

Brian V.

NO I really appreciate the comments! I think I'm doing ok, for someone who just really started recording 8 months ago

Any tips on improving? or is it really just "keep singing"?

Newest song, please be honest..not cruel:thu:

Song is here:

http://sites.google.com/site/tsitalon1/Home/file-access/RiseandFall_James4.3.mp3?attredirects=0

If you were smiling and singing with expression and looked like you were getting into it, I'd say you could do this at a bar and get applause. I've heard worse from re-hireable bands.

Maybe more breathing and singing from the diaphragm?

It does sound like something you'd hear in a bar.

I think you should interchange from a speaking-singing to a "beltier" singing...

Anyone reading all my posts will realize I'm all about the belting...

Hey... I just love the belting...

But I digress...

The voice needs more character

And strength

Speak-singing can be nice only if it's contrasted with sing-singing

A lot like "Perfect Day" by Lou Reed

Then again... he wasn't singing that much, really...

Or was he...

It was played to me a few times... last time I heard it I was concentrating on the different mic techniques for music tech class..

And my teacher was commenting on how he's all up close for the verse.. then further away and reverbed for the chorus..

But I digress again...

What was I even talking about?

Oh yes... singing...

Try using a bit more of a "singing" voice in parts

----

TomM

P.S. Why didn't I just say the last line then leave it at that? Oh well, I'm not deleting the rest of my post... my stream of consciousness is sacred to me!!!

Tips:

Try to make the song more legato - fluid, smooth.

Else I would say that you sing ok, and on pitch. It seems like you spent some time to learn the melody, but stopped refining when you had the correct notes and lyrics. This is only a small part of the story, so....another tips is to spend some time trying to copy the vocal of the song, many will say it's a bad tips. The reason for doing it is that you learn a lot technique and expression this way, guitarists been doing this since long time ago.

Copying other singers and learning to sing just like them will explore sounds, just remember to copy what you like and only if it seems right and don't hurt. One day you'll find that copying starts to put a limit to your own expression, you'll start to add your own things and that's when you really are starting to develop your own style.

I didn't do the download, but will agree with bajazz's statement.

If you are new as you say, I would definetly advise you to do your best to duplicate any nuance of melody in the song, try to get every single note exactly as it is on the track you are copying.

Get it down perfectly.

Then after you have it down dead on, go back and do whatever you want with the song, give it any personality you choose, all your own style as you see fit.

Thanks, I find the biggest hurdle to making it more legato is breath control. It's a relatively fast phrased song, and I do find myself running out of air here and there. I'm trying to better my breathing, but all the youtube video's just aren't helping yet (kidding).

i'd say work on pitch... anything else is very forgivable to the listener's ear, but pitch is crucial. the good thing is pitch is something you can practice and master. your tone isn't bad. breathing could use some work. if you work at it, i bet you could be a very good singer.

thanks again. i am trying to work on my breathing...but seem to have hit a wall...I'll keep trying.

My newest - Comments Expected.

Re-write of an existing John Legend song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWeNaoI4wdE

See this is a huge problem dude.

You say you want people to critique your songs (fair enough)

but the fact is you don't want REAL criticism from a real singer who has

been gigging for a while, hence...HE has experience singing live.

He wasn't cruel, just being real.

If you want people to suck up, well sure, then you'll get people who are lying to you...giving you a false sense of security, then what?

You'll have all of this confidence, go to American Idol, then get shot down in flames...Not what this forum would like for any member here.

Singing well takes time.

Some seem natural at it, but they were predisposed to things, talent or music when they were young and it rubbed off.

Personally I don't hear anything really wrong with your voice, but I will say

you'll get more chops once you sing more often and practice...

It sounds like your genre is RnB.

I would also like to say I like your resolve and perseverance.

Don't take ANYTHING personal and keep pursuing singing.

EDIT: DUDE! I listened to your John Legend cover and while I don't he sings that well...

I like your voice...I also like your sound, it's smooth.

Thanks I appreciate all you comments. I am a little lost on where I presumably got upset at a critque. I love honest feedback, If I gave someone the impression that I am some sensitive dude that can't take it, that is not what I meant..

When I say I want criticism, I mean real criticism like, your a little flat here, or sharp there, or work on your breathing....

When I say don't be cruel, I'm talking about the jerkoffs that say "You suck dude" That is not criticism, that's being an a$$hole..

I don't believe I was sensitive to anyone giving me real criticism...

BTW, I am humbled by your preference to my voice over John Legends..Thanks!!!

You don't suck, but if someone said that

you would have to know that they are probably:

12

tonedeaf

and/or insanely jealous of your voice.

I'm very confident in my voice but I can appreciate another singer's talent/conveyance of emotion/style....

Keep it up:thu:

After hearing you, I must say that every bar band singer in your area can relax and not worry about you stealing their gig.

According to this thread:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?p=38467152#post38467152

You have always been an A$$hole. I'm not even trying to Gig...Do it cause I like it, don't have to sing to support me or my family.....good thing too:)

Dude, don't feed the ladyboy hermaphrodite no talent TROLLS!!!

They get fatter, nastier and just plain jealous.

Iamtheblues - oh my GOD, how horrible you are!!! What the hell gives you the right to come on here and be so unnecessarily RUDE to people who are already feeling vulnerable by exposing any shortcomings in singing!!!

People who do that are small, insignificant individuals who clearly feel inadequate and inferior within themselves.

To the original poster, for what it’s worth, I like your voice. I just listened to the Santana cover, and although obviously your voice is different from his sort of more deeper, gnarled type rugged voice, I really like your singing on that song. I think you’re good. You sound quite laid back…like others before me have said, you do sound a tad talk-singing, but that’s not always a bad thing if it still sounds good. I can actually hear you singing stuff like this in bars or at restaurants, you know? And I hope that doesn’t come across as insulting if your ambitions are way higher. Lol. I myself would be pleased to sing at a restaurant…it’s good practice and I think it’d be sort of fun…my main suggestion I guess for you is to (1) develop more of a specific kind of singing STYLE for your own specific voice, (2) put a bit more personality and enthusiasm into the singing (sort of related to the first point), and (3) keep practicing!

In any case, Do NOT listen to Mr Idiot. Definitely keep singing!

Hey, just calling it like I hear it. People need to learn that not everyone will be a fan, and not everyone will be glowing in their reviews. It's just the way life is, there will be criticism and sometimes it will be harsh. I've played shows where people have loved what I did and I've played ones where people have literally thrown stuff at the stage and at us.

Problem with society these days is that we're raising a bunch of soft kids (see it a lot on "American Idol", how many times do you hear Simon say "I guess no one has ever told them they're bad before"?) We're so used to making sure everyone passes, and everyone gets a gold star, no one loses, that when they encounter someone in real life that can be brutally honest and tell it like it is, that they get upset because nobody has ever told them so before.

Part of being in the music business (and life in general) is to have a thick skin when it comes to criticism. Someone takes a shot at you, you can either: a) brush it off b) take it as a challenge and improve yourself or c) whine about it "why do people say such hurtful things? mommy and daddy say I'm good, why are you so mean?" etc..... Not once did anyone ever say "well, what do you think I can do to improve? What about it didn't you like?"

Thank you all for (unknowingly) taking part in my sociological experiment, a few of my friends have been following along with these threads and you all have proven my point.