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Why do my saxes sound accordion-like?


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My guess is you used some kind of pitch correction, which "flattens" out the performances, for lack of a better word. Removing a lot of the subtle pitch variations in a performance is one way this accordian effect is created. Also, more dynamics in your playing will help minimize the effect.

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My guess is you used some kind of pitch ...

It's true. I just got pitch-correction software and part of the reason I did this was to "learn the software"

 

Here is the same thing without the pitch correction. I'm not sure it sounds any more sax like. Just more accorion-with-intonation-issues-like. ;)

 

http://www.rowka.com/Safire/Have_Yourself_as_recorded.mp3

 

Listening again, I can hear the difference. Not as drastic as I might hope, but it's there. Also, it seems my intonation on the original tracks is spotty in places, but not as bad as I had thought. Maybe I'll just re-record the thing after practicing it a little more, and with better mics. And a little faster.

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Your pitch correction software AND using the same horn(s) for all the parts are the problem.

 

REAL sax sections are made up of different horns (even if they're the same brand) that have slightly different pitches (no group can tune EXACTLY and even a few cents makes a difference.)

 

It's the variety to the ear that makes a section....

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Your pitch correction software AND using the same horn(s) for all the parts are the problem.


REAL sax sections are made up of different horns (even if they're the same brand) that have slightly different pitches (no group can tune EXACTLY and even a few cents makes a difference.)


It's the
variety
to the ear that makes a section....

 

 

Good point Tim!

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Well, I DID use 3 different horns.

 

Alto (for 2 parts)

Tenor (for 2 parts)

Bari

 

 

A forumite over at SOTW took my raw tracks and remixed them (a little reverb and a lot of fader work) and posted it here.

It's a big improvement.

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Here is a sample from my site of me playing 5 saxes (Alto1 Alto2 Tenor1 Tenor2 Bari) doing my arrangement of the head to Cottontail.

No pitch correction - just some reverb - I don't remember if I eq'd it at all - I think not...

 

http://www.realsax.com/audio/Cottontail3.mp3

 

While I am quite happy with the result, I might start using a different mouthpiece for the 2nd horn parts when I do section work, just to add a little more tonal variety.

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Damn Jim, thats the way I WISH most sax sections sounded! Having played all the parts yourself helps, but the way every phrase started and ended together-THAT is what makes a real section!

 

Its odd that you comment about tonal variety; in trumpet land its generally a given that in major groups everyone will play similar equipment to "blend." This can extend as far as mouthpieces at least!

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I agree, SSB, and most horn sections could stand to study the classic Ellington sections as thoroughly as Jim obviously has. Tone plus killer phrasing equals Ellingtonian swing. Jim you obviously are quite good in the studio as well, again really excellent work on the clip man!

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I agree, SSB, and most horn sections could stand to study the classic Ellington sections as thoroughly as Jim obviously has. Tone plus killer phrasing equals Ellingtonian swing. Jim you obviously are quite good in the studio as well, again really excellent work on the clip man!

 

 

Thanks guys - I really aprreciatte your comments!

 

I must admit I'm a bit shaken up at the moment. I was coming back from a gig tonight and got rear ended by a speeder - my van was totalled. I hit both guard rails did a 360 and endud up facing traffic - scary! I'm alright, but still in shock...

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Thanks guys - I really aprreciatte your comments!


I must admit I'm a bit shaken up at the moment. I was coming back from a gig tonight and got rear ended by a speeder - my van was totalled. I hit both guard rails did a 360 and endud up facing traffic - scary! I'm alright, but still in shock...

 

 

First and most importantly I'm very glad that you're alright.

 

Second, since you were on your way home from a gig. . .how are the horns:cry:?

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Thanks guys for your support - I really appreciate it. My neck is a bit sore, and I'm a little more tired than usual, but that's it.

 

My apologies to the original poster as I seem to have hijacked this thread- sorry!

 

I had my alto, flute and soprano in the car - and my laptop! Everything seems fine, believe it or not. I played alto and tenor today, I'll put the soprano and flute through the paces tomorrow - fingers crossed.

 

 

Regards,

 

Jim

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Jim, make sure that your neck feels just soreness and not sharp pains. Give it a couple of days too. Glad the horns are ok, too...no doubt you have good cases for them. Do you own a baritone as well?

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Jim, make sure that your neck feels just soreness and not sharp pains. Give it a couple of days too. Glad the horns are ok, too...no doubt you have good cases for them. Do you own a baritone as well?

 

 

Thanks Lambros - good advice - I'll take it.

 

Yes I own a Mark VI Bari but the show I'm in doesn't call for it, thankfuly.

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That's no doubt a good Bari you have, low Eb or A? Had a chance to get a really good Yamaha 62 years ago through a friend doing Broadway gigs but regretably, it didn't happen. That is going to be my last major horn purchase and I've had to put it off for a number of years because I concentrated more on bass clarinet, soprano clarinet and flute.

I have a really good Selmer, late Series 9 horn, low C bass clarinet.

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That's no doubt a good Bari you have, low Eb or A? Had a chance to get a really good Yamaha 62 years ago through a friend doing Broadway gigs but regretably, it didn't happen. That is going to be my last major horn purchase and I've had to put it off for a number of years because I concentrated more on bass clarinet, soprano clarinet and flute.

I have a really good Selmer, late Series 9 horn, low C bass clarinet.

 

It sounds like you have a nice "arsenal" of horns! I have not nor will I attempt to add Bass Clarinet to my collection. I have my hands full maintaning my trumpet chops in addition to the woodwinds I do play!! :lol:

 

My Bari is a low Bb horn - hasn't cost me a job yet, not having the low A ...

 

For a second there I thought you must be a LOT older than me when you wrote "Had a chance to get a really good Yamaha 62 years ago" - until I realized it was a "Yamaha 62" rather than a Yamaha, 62 years ago :lol:

 

Regards,

 

Jim

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Jim, that is funny and I stand corrected!! Yamaha 62, years ago, back in the early 90s. It barely had a scratch on it and the guy only wanted $1800 for it...:cry:

Anyway, bass clarinet is a great playing horn, providing you have a good instrument and some background on soprano clarinet. I found that you basically have to think 'big, relaxed sound' with it and then all the dynamic nuances of the horn come naturally as it can play very softly as well. I found alto flute much harder to play consistently in comparison.

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Jim, that is funny and I stand corrected!! Yamaha 62, years ago, back in the early 90s. It barely had a scratch on it and the guy only wanted $1800 for it...
:cry:
Anyway, bass clarinet is a great playing horn, providing you have a good instrument and some background on soprano clarinet. I found that you basically have to think 'big, relaxed sound' with it and then all the dynamic nuances of the horn come naturally as it can play very softly as well. I found alto flute much harder to play consistently in comparison.

 

I'm with you on the alto flute, that too takes extra practice...

 

OK - I'm off to my "smooth jazz" gig

 

P.S. Don't hate me guys 'cause I don't play just "straight ahead" (love it tho!) but I like pop music ,etc. - don't tell me you don't like Chaka Khan or Mary J. Blige! :) If not, that's quite alright - to me, music is like food, there are so many kinds, and you don't have to like them all...

 

Maybe when I get home I'll relax to a little Ravel or Dvorak ;)

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I think it's fine Jim and some of the greatest solos are straight from pop tunes with great musicians of courses. IndoFunk had a pretty damn good thread a while back on the subject. Enjoy the gig and the bread you get from it!!

 

P.S. I heard some really good Ravel earlier in the week that featured flute, cello and piano and it was an absolutely beautiful composition. It was closer to Ravel's earlier Debussy inspired period, at least to my ears.

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