what are the differences between the brands of the Conn-Selmer conglomerate?

what are the differences between the brands of the Conn-Selmer conglomerate?

is it just logos and stickers? i mean you have a bach 42, a conn 88h, and a, king 4b; but are they really different horns coming out of the factory?

At one point, all of the different names were individual companies. Conn, Benge, LeBlanc, Vito, etc. Several of the American companies were purchased to become UMI, including Conn and Benge. At this time, Conns were made in Abilene. Selmer Paris bought UMI to make Conn Selmer.

Holton had already been purchased by LeBlanc. I think only a few years ago Conn Selmer purchased the LeBlanc conglomerate.

Currently, there are factories in Elkhart, Indiana, in Eastlake, Ohio for brass, and also Selmer's Paris shop. I don't know where the woodwinds are coming from (Yanigasawa is Japanese) or whether there are other brass factories.

interesting.

im gonna go try one of these

Jazz wise, the King SilverSonic 3B is one of the best horns on the market. Wonderful horns to play on.

thats what i hear:thu:

As an add-on to my previous post:

Most of the same model names are still around, but most have nothing to do with their namesake. Martin makes a Committee, but its a far cry from Miles's horn. Same for the Conn 52B "Connstellation," which is nothing like the old 38B (which Indofunk plays, IIRC). Those were fab horns.

I don't know about the low brass or woodwinds, but among trumpets only the Bach, Selmer, and Conn Vintage One are rated very highly at all. LeBlanc makes a Schilke copy, the Arturo Sandoval model, and Holton has the Maynard horns, but those really aren't that great.

I believe there is also some manufacturing in China, now. I think the bargain/student Prelude line is coming out of China.

Scott

yes on both counts.

also yes.

This sounds correct. I remember seeing a Chinese line at NAMM

I actually recently bought a Prelude Alto (just to learn the transition from clarinet). Based on some of the things that I'd heard could be wrong with a budget horn, it actually looks as though this one is pretty good, and was set up pretty well--there seems to be only one pad that's slightly off.

Even the mouthpiece isn't bad--although the ligature (of all things) is crap...

Scott

Some Chinese horns are actually getting to the point where they make a good cheapy. There are still horns that are basically limited to smashing on stage, but at least a few of them play more or less in tune, and consistently.

All things considered, your alto gets a pretty good review here:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Alto/Selmer_Prelude_AS700.htm

This guy really knows his horns, and the site has some great info, too.

I actually recently bought a Prelude Alto (just to learn the transition from clarinet). Based on some of the things that I'd heard could be wrong with a budget horn, it actually looks as though this one is pretty good, and was set up pretty well--there seems to be only one pad that's slightly off. Even the mouthpiece isn't bad --although the ligature (of all things) is crap... Scott

Heh. Actually, I had read that review, and poked around that page extensively, before deciding on this horn... Actually it was that review in particular that convinced me to get the Prelude instead of the Barrington or the Kohlert that were a little cheaper on WWBW.

Scott

Scott, it sounds like the build quality of the Prelude is quite good, if not excellent, even with the short cuts and cheaper materials. I'd be interested to see how it would play in comparison to say a horn like a Cannonball alto which is, I guess, considered a higher end Chinese horn.

Any luck with mouthpieces yet?

I have been looking around, I haven't made any decisions yet. I'm having more luck with the low notes now--once I figured out that the orientation of the neck does in fact matter... I was having a small leak at the octave pad because the post was pressing every so slightly on the ring...

But I now have no trouble going down to the D, and the C and B are getting easier, too.

The ligature issue is a bit more urgent--the stock ligature is so soft that tightening the screws bent it. But I've been using my cloth clarinet ligature in the meantime...

Scott

Oh yeah, the orientation of the neck matters a lot because, as you found out, the octave harness/sling cannot be engaged without the octave key being pressed. It's an easy enough adjustment, if necessary, to make because the harness bends easily enough in small increments either towards or away from the neck and that is what happens accidently from time to time.

The actual space between the octave pad and the neck octave pip should ideally be no wider than 1/8th-3/16th of an inch when the octave is engaged. What complicates things though is the timing mechanism that is built into the G key foot when the octave is engaged because spring tensions here have to be balanced in anumber of places. Trill between A & G, with octave engaged, and you'll see the octave mechanism pad underneath the G key foot moving up and down: up & opened with the neck octave closed on G and notes below it to D, down & closed and neck octave opened on A and notes above it; this is how the neck and body octave unison venting works.

Is there a shop nearby where you can try out a variety of ligatures (?), take advantage of that if you can, Scott.

I got a Vandoren A35 V5, and a Rovner dark rubber ligature (which also came with a new cap, too). This seems a little better—particularly the ligature. I expect I will also experiment with 3.5 reeds, too. And down the road, maybe a Jumbo Java—but in the meantime, I also just bought a Shure SM57, so I'm not paying another $100 for another mouthpiece just now...

I also notice some other small sort of clarinet-isms affecting my playing. One annoying thing—when I go for the Bb side key, being used to the clarinet where there's nothing else nearby, it seems sometimes I am being uncareful, and just ever so slightly hitting the high F# key. At first I thought there was something wrong with the horn when I could get Bb in both octaves some times, but not others, and then I noticed what I was doing...

Scott

Scott, that's a good first step! Try the Java 3.5 reeds since they're also sold in a two pack with a clear plastic reed case for those who want to expirement and don't rule out metal ligatures completely because there are many varieties to choose from.

The A35 is a 4 or 5 tip opening, maybe the A45 is a little more open sounding. I'm not sure you're after the sound of the Jumbo Java though with its very pronounced baffle. The regular Java on the other hand maybe closer to what you're after; it's similar to your A35/V5 now but it has a bit more edge.

I agree, the Bb right hand trill key can be tricky in the beginning.

WWBW.com is describing the jumbo JAVA as "A powerful mouthpiece designed for rock and fusion playing." I'm using the sax in two rock-oriented venues at the moment--at home on songs, and at a weekly "jam" (where we usually get six guitarists and a drummer... )

For the ligature, though, I had had very, very good results on the clarinet with the cloth, so it seemed logical to go the similar route on the sax. And I like the ligature so far. I'm only thinking now of going to the 3.5 reeds from the 3's I've been using.

(BTW, I did decide to try again the 2.5 that came with the horn, and I couldn't get any sound out if it... )

Scott

Scott, it's all good man...if Vandoren describes the Jumbo that way, only you can decide (after playing it of course) if it is the sound you're after. Sounds like to me you may have to go metal in order to compete in a high volume setting like the one you described.

My 14 year son has a Conn SELMER alto and it's suprizingly a great horn.

I played it on a pay gig the other day just for fun. I didn't like the thought of my son taking my 1963 Mark VI alto to 8th grade band, so we got him this horn. Perfect for marching and also for Jazz band. He's using a hard Rubber

Vandoren A-27 mouthpiece for classical. For marching, a Wolf Tayne 6*.

Great Horn!!