charliedango

Still going for the record of longest thread evar!

You win nothing.

Before it's locked or deleted.

What time is it?

Say hello to Johnny Arcade!!

Originally posted by guitar shmoe I guess I'm just not understanding your position or worldview on social issues?...you seem to 'borrow' terms from the Christian worldview though... I thought I made it pretty clear before. A debate over gay marriage is useless because as society evolves it will be accepted into the mainstream. Resistance to this is a futile endeavor because it's not in sync with the changing times. That's not what you want to know though, is it? You want to know how I feel about homosexuality and gay marriage. You want to know if you should attack my opinion or support it based solely on my personal viewpoint on the matter. Well here it comes... I've never been close enough to anyone homosexual to say whether or not if it's genetic or just a lifestyle choice. With every fiber of my heterosexual being I oppose homosexuality because I cannot fathom being attracted to someone of the same sex as me. I can go the rest of my life with or without homosexuals in this world and not give it another thought. I know a lot of gay people and some members of my wife's family are gay, but I don't avoid them because of it. It costs me too much to put distance between me and the people I don't agree with. I don't actively protest the homosexual lifestyle, even though I don't agree with it. People are entitled to live their own lives and do as they feel. Who am I to tell someone else how to live? I do what I feel is right and I try my best to live happily. If I had a gay son or daughter, I wouldn't disown them. It would be just one of the many obstacles to overcome throughout life that would result in my changing frame of mind. I would evolve beyond the person I was before. That's my persepctive on that. I hope that makes more sense than the last 5 posts I've dedicated to this thread.

Originally posted by Ultrahighgain Regarding free will: I suppose that God gave us free will because of the reasons for which he created us; love, worship, and companionship. To create is an act of love. Consider how valueless love and worship are unless they are given freely. So God gave us free will so he could be sure he was loved and that it wasn't forced? It makes me uncomfortable to think that God would create all of existence just to make himself feel better about himself. Actually, I'd prefer to believe that God doesn't resign himself to the emotional frailty we as humans sometimes possess. A long time ago I lost faith in the church because what I sought could not be found there. I was displeased with the level of immaturity I experienced on a daily level and placed my hope in the fact that God's teachings brought along with it an enlightemnment that would one day overcome childish ways. My hopes were shattered when I discovered that the elders of my church behaved in the same manner as the children at my school. These men of faith were no better than my schoolmates. I was extremely let down by that. Throughout life I've discovered more and more that there is no difference between childhood and adulthood as I once believed there was. I found that even the oldest and supposedly wisest people on this earth are still capable of acting like complete babies. To me, God represents a creation beyond our tangible reasoning. God isn't a manipulator, or a deceiver. God doesn't play by the same rules as man, that's what makes him God, so why do so many people believe that he is just like us and capable of the same childish behavior? I don't know. I don't pretend to know why God gave us free will, but I'm very certain in the fact that no one else knows either.

Originally posted by guitar shmoe Well, if you don't believe in God, Asssumption number 2 Originally posted by guitar shmoe and Christianity has failed.... Failed........at..........?? Originally posted by guitar shmoe who do YOU trust? No one. Originally posted by guitar shmoe What is your 'standard' for life choices? Standard for life choices? That sounds like something you'd here on The View or something. Originally posted by guitar shmoe and, if we live in 'modern' times and society has 'evolved', then, how come things aren't better? Who said evolution makes things better? All evolution does is present new ideas and new problems. It's the course of life, it's not the path to utopia. Originally posted by guitar shmoe How would YOU 'fix' society? (answer in order please) Does it need to be fixed? Our society works it's problems out over time. I think the number one problem with most people today is that they want everything right now. I don't really understand that frame of mind anymore, however I used to be just like that. It was hard for me to accept the fact that I couldn't get what I wanted even though I applied myself in the areas I was supposed to and did the things I needed to do to acheive said things. It took me 10 years to realize that just because you work toward something doesn't mean it's guaranteed. Nothing in life is guaranteed, you just have to know how to relax, be patient and plan ahead for a better future......or perhaps that's just age talking. I don't know. Our society isn't that bad. It's got it's ups and downs, but all in all everyone has the power within themselves to overcome and acheive. Goals are important. I guess If there was one thing I would do, it would be to impart onto the next generation a desire to set and acheive goals. Other than that, I'm not complaining.

Originally posted by guitar shmoe 1) Who appointed YOU authority over what is "counterproductive to modern society"? and what criteria do you use for your isoteric conclusions? 2) It is YOU that refuses to 'budge' when negotiating and discussing issues. 3) Free will is given, yes! but that we would use it for love and peace.... not selfish endeavors (and that does not mean we cannot defend ourselves from those that are murderous and self serving at the expense of others). 1. Did I say I was the authority? Life goes on and people gather more and more information over time. It's a natural occurance and no one can prevent that from happening as it's been tried in the past and has failed. The information people gather forces each of us to evaluate and re-evaluate our ever changing world. There are people who are afraid to grow and there are those who welcome growth with open arms. The world presents everyone with obstacles to overcome. Some are easy and some are very difficult, but the only way for people to move on is to overcome. 2. That's an assumption on your part. I'm following historical trends and using that as a basis of my opinion on the present and my assumptions of the future. Whether I agree with it or not is a moot point. 3. The hope is that we would not use it for selfish endeavors, but still selfish endeavors are undertaken daily by all. That's why forgiveness is in place, to remedy those who indulge in the daily sins of life. What I was saying was that if God were adamant about his law and his commandments, he wouldn't have given people free will. Free will is our gift to use as we see fit, yet people still insist that God means for us to live a certain way. I think God knows better than his subjects what he intended. Besides, most Christians abide by double-standards all the time. Defending the sanctity of marriage when it comes to homosexual union, but doing nothing to oppose divorce. Why not take up legislation to ban divorce if the sanctity of marriage should be upheld? It's a double-standard that there is no getting around. What's good for one should be good for all, no? Like I said before, this entire gay marriage ban debate is just a time-waster and in 20 years will be as relevent as debates over whether or not women deserve the right to vote. You can't stop progress.

Originally posted by guitar shmoe Possible solution: 1) We all have preconceptions and worldviews (faith or non faith) and ideas about solving social issues. A biblical view should not be dismissed just because it's from the bible and a non-biblical view should not be dismissed just because it isn't in the bible....simple. No, it shouldn't be dismissed based on it's origin, but if it's counterproductive to the advancement of our modern society and an attempt to keep us from expanding our cultural horizons as a nation, then it should be dismissed. A person who interprets the Bible as irrefutable law and will not budge on that concept should be ignored because their steadfast dedication to their faith makes it impossible for them to change. A person who is more faith-concious, but flexible on the terms of Biblical law will most likely present a more level-headed debate and is more willing to concede to ideas that make sense as opposed to hardliners who feel it should be God's way or the highway. According to the Bible, God gave us free will to do with the world and our lives as we felt. If God was truly that adamant about keeping us in-line, he certainly wouldn't have given us free will. Originally posted by guitar shmoe 2) We aren't gonna agree on everything. Right. Originally posted by guitar shmoe 3) That's OK 'IF' we are seeking the common good for all, and our purpose is peace. If by we you're referring to agnostics/athiests and people of faith, then I suppose so. No peace can ever be found in limiting civil liberties and human rights though. People unwilling to expand their minds to accept new ways, cultures and ideas are the people who prevent peace from occuring. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, if you cannot accept change, then you will fight for your right to stay stubborn and ignorant.

The "Catholic = Christian" argument is a dead-end. Catholics are Catholics. Christians are Christians.

Originally posted by Ultrahighgain Don't confuse Catholicism with Christianity. I expect you'll say that they're the same, but they are not. That's the beauty of the US. We evolve principals. I know christianity was formed long before America, but it's those same ideals, determination and drive to be who we are that started America in the first place.

Originally posted by guitar shmoe Ann Coulter is RIGHT! you can't have a decent discussion with liberals...truly, a waste of time. The same can be said for discussions with right wing conservatives and fundamentalist Christians. You can't have a discussion with someone who angers at the mere mention of an opposing opinion. Liberal and conservative alike.