Jazzer2020

34 minutes ago, Mikeo said:

Les Pauls are supposed to be heavy. The do make weight relief-ed ones, but who wants to pay for air.

I bought my LP standard in 1982.

I ordered it from a same dealer in my old home town.

It was supposed to be a custom, but Norlin turned it into a standard, new they saw my order come through. Note the maple neck. There's a few small dings in it after 40 years.

It's a weird color gold too.

Mostly when I gigged with and electric I used a Tele and a Strat. Yeah they are lighter for sure.

 

 

I'd buy another Gibson Les Paul, but this time I want a 1960 Flame top.

I'm holding out, cause I am semi retired and looking. 

I'm not a collector, but I have more than a few guitars kicking around. My wife is waiting for me to die, so she can hoe the house free of music gear. If she dies first, I'm gonna bury her in the back yard cheap and buy a few more guitars.

 

Nice looking guitar!
Mine looked similar, but a finer detailed gold top, not paint-looking
and a one piece neck, different knobs.
And of course it had the P-90 pickups. 
Around the time I sold mine I picked up a Squier strat.
I've got a ton of guitars but only two solid bodies; the Squier and the SG.

 

31 minutes ago, Mikeo said:

OMG

I hate to say this, but many a luthiers have made a fine living repairing Gibson headstock.

I am not in the club. YET.

One of  SG's is 42 years old and in killer shape. My other SG is a classic with P90's.

Yes after it happened, I learned how common broken headstocks are on Gibsons because of the
headstock angle.

I like the SG's and bought mine because I was looking for a lighter Gibson guitar.
I used to have an original 1968 Les Paul (original owner) but sold it years ago
at a ridiculous price. The guitar was too heavy for me.
 

Breaking the headstock was an interesting learning experience for me.
It happened on a weekend and so I was in a panic because my regular
luthier was closed until Tuesday!

I couldn't bear to see the guitar in pieces, so I tried to fix it myself.
Long story short, I managed to glue the neck back together and was
surprised when all went well.

It inspired me to get out my broken violin bow that I had snapped in two
years before. I was also successful at gluing it back together and it plays
and sounds just as good as before the accident.
 

One interesting thing I learned was that the glue is so strong that if
the neck or bow should ever break again it is almost certain it would be in a different
location from the glued part!
 

1 hour ago, daddymack said:

possibly. Replace the tone pot and see...

That was my first inclination based on your posts.

What year is your SG?

'frying' a potentiometer is not an easy thing to do, they should last decades [my '62 Melody Maker still has its original pots].

It was the pot!

So much for the spider wiring on the Volume pot.

I swapped out the existing for a spare 500K I had hanging around from ages ago
and it worked!
Now I have to decide on a cap value and I should be good to go.

My SG is circa early 2000's.
It went through a traumatic experience early in its life when I decided to weigh it.
I got out my scale and was intending on weighing myself with and without the guitar
to figure out its weight.

But things didn't go according to plan when I put the guitar on a stand next to the scale
and a couple of seconds later watched the guitar fall forward and swing face down onto a tile floor!
The neck snapped apart immediately near the headstock.
 

3 hours ago, daddymack said:

view this video...you could skip to about 10:00 in...

On your SG there is no simple 'do this', IMHO, because of the terribly sloppy solder and wire routing. If you brought this to me, I would unsolder all that spider...first...and then re-do it neatly.

Then I would be able to start looking for shorts.

but...for your approach, when you do this: " I connected the volume tab to the 2nd tone tab directly with a wire (no capacitor)"

check the hot lead to ground with the VOM.

Thanks for the video!

I checked the hot lead to ground. The hot lead does not go to ground!

I did another test which I think has gotten to the root of the problem.
I believe I somehow fried my neck tone pot.

When I connect the neck volume pot to the bridge tone pot, it works.
That is, I can control the tone of the neck pickup using the bridge pot!

Would you agree with me that I have troubleshooted the problem?

4 hours ago, daddymack said:

looking at the 'spaghetti spider' soldered to that one pot by the switch, I would probably start there....

yes, you should trace each connection with a VOM, and test the 'hot lead' and see if it is shorted to ground.

Thanks again for your help!

Here are a few observations that may give some clues to you.

First I tested the hot lead without using the VOM.
I simply disconnected the hot lead from the volume pot tab and no sound of course.
Then I connected it and sound came through as expected.

Then I connected the volume tab to the tone tab directly with a wire (no capacitor).
Sound came through. Is this expected?

Then I connected the volume tab to the 2nd tone tab directly with a wire (no capacitor).
No sound. Is this expected?

If this wasn't helpful or didn't give anything unexpected, could you please tell me what to check
for specifically with the VOM. I'm not sure what to trace back and where to do it?

7 hours ago, badpenguin said:

Ok, so it sounded as if you had the tone set to zero, despite the setting. Something is grounding out on the tone pot. Pull the tone pot and add some electrical tape to the bottom of the lugs, then do the same to the volume control. The black paint there is shielding paint and might be causing a short.

Yes something definitely seems to be shorting out.

As I mentioned in my first post, before I did any soldering, I simply used alligator clips to test out more than half a dozen different caps.
I did that SUCCESSFULLY. Meaning, each time I put the cap in the circuit I could turn the pot and listen to the effect of each cap, from 10-0.
The caps were all working in the circuit.

It was only when I soldered one cap in the circuit (also having soldered an attachment wire to the hot lead because it was too short)
that I started to have this problem (the cap was not working).
 

I tried your suggestion of using electrical tape on the tab ends but that didn't work.

Is there a way I can test the connections using a multi-meter?
I'm thinking of the switch, the pot leads etc.

If I can't do that, I'm thinking of replacing all the pots and starting from scratch. 
 

Here are some more photos.

I made an interesting discovery just now (for me).
I thought I had found the solution, but it turned out to just be a discovery.
With a cap hooked up I was playing through an amp.
There was no difference in sound, as I turned the tone pot.

Then I moved the alligator clip to attach the cap to the other tab on the tone pot.
Bingo! I thought. All of a sudden I was getting a very muted dark sound.
But as I turned the tone pot, the tone remained the same all the time.

So attaching the cap to one tab gave one extreme, and attaching it to the other
tab gave the other extreme. That's all. 
 

(In the first two and last two photos I have desoldered some extra solder from the wire going to the volume
pot, near the black cloth cover.)

Thanks.

I know I can get dozens of wiring diagrams.
I know the correct wiring for my guitar.

What I wanted to know is if you could see anything obvious that was sticking out?
A bad wire, solder etc. etc.

I can see the other vol/tone pot, how it's wired. It's working fine.
And I wired the tone cap in it (you can't see it in the photo).

Long story about how I go here...

But basically I am trying to get my Gibson SG neck tone pot to work.

A couple of days ago I was able to experiment with a bunch of different cap values.
I simply hooked up the caps with alligator plugs and found the best sounding ones.

I narrowed them down to two.

Then when I decided on one I soldered it into place.

But now it doesn't work!!!
It's been frustrating.
Obviously something isn't connected right, or the soldering was messed up.

I unsoldered the cap and took a photo.
Does anything look obvious from the photo?

Last month I bit the bullet after trying to get my Gibson ES-175 wired to eliminate a pop/crackle
and brought it in to a shop. They re-wired and put in all new parts. Ouch!

Hope I don't have to to it again with this guitar.
 

Tung oil is what I have used several times to great effect.
I have also applied mahogany finish and sanded that down to a fine finish.
I don't remember if I put Tung oil on top of that.

Yes it could be vol/tone pots or bridge grounding.

I was thinking along the lines of the pickup as the problem.

Something else just came up that might be related...

I was having a pretty good session now (as far as pops/crackles etc.)
but I noticed my G string was not balanced volume-wise to the rest.
I figured it would be an easy fix.
I got out my screw driver and raised the pickup screw under the G string.
I know they should be raised a fraction at a time because the volume change should
be immediately noticeable.

But that wasn't the case. The screw position went from being one of the lowest
to one of the highest and there was hardly any difference in volume!

Can these pole adjustments just "go" after time?
Is there a fix for them?
It would really be nice to get a good balanced volume across all six strings.


 

Well unfortunately I'm not out of the woods yet with this one. 

I swapped the output jack and though it seemed to fix things at first, sure enough with more playing
the pops/crackles came back.

So I tried swapping guitar cables and that didn't help.

I have a suspicion where the problem might lie but want to wait until I hear from you folks first.

By the way, just to let you know I'm not going crazy...
I used the exact same amp and guitar cable with another guitar (another ES-175),
and there were no pops/crackles whatsoever.

1 hour ago, Mr.Grumpy said:

Oh, so it's not an "enclosed" jack at all, it's a jack enclosed in a shielding can. I have an Aria Pro II ES-335 copy that used them. In theory, the shielding cans and shielded pickup wire should provide "100% coverage" from RFI in a wooden hollowbody guitar. Probably not practical to cover the inside of a hollow body guitar in copper foil. 

Given some peoples' OCD-leaning issues with shielding and noise, I'm surprised they're not de riguer for the Tones of Distinction people, (You know who you are) As others have pointed out, their benefit seems limited for the extra trouble (and SKILLz) needed to install/rework these. If one uses shielded wire to make the connections between pots, switches, and the output jack, then there's only a few short inches of un-shielded wire to act as a "noise antenna" inside the control cavity. 

Could you please explain in layman's terms, what the difference is between an "enclosed jack" and a "jack enclosed in a shielding can"?

Thanks!

19 minutes ago, jtr654 said:

Take the bridge PU out and  tie dental floss  to get things back into place.

"I'll need to get it out through the pickup hole (hopefully it will make it out the neck pickup hole,
as the other hole was plugged a long time ago)."

2 hours ago, daddymack said:

you opened a small can of worms....I don't think I ever saw a closed jack on a 175...did you buy it new?

1) enclosed jacks should be tossed when they fail.

2) are you sure it won't come out the f-hole?

3) you could have soldered a wire to the exposed metal of the neck of the jack...too late now.

4) yes I have rewired a number of hollow bodies, mine included...always a challenge...but do-able if you plan ahead and have the right tools.

5) was the nut full tight on the jack when you removed it?

6) there are choices you make when doing something new...

 

It's not as bad a situation as it seems.

I've worked a lot on hollow bodies in the past.

No, I didn't buy it new. But that doesn't mean the jack was necessarily modified.

1. I will toss this jack for sure.
2. Sure it won't come out. It's a huge mother!
3. Given that the jack has to go, having soldered it to a wire wouldn't have accomplished anything in the end. 
4. I don't have the best tools, but I always make do. 
5. Yes, full tight.
6. So far I don't regret anything I've done with this guitar. 

But you didn't answer my main question.
Would you cut the enclosed jack out or try to crack it open and get at the leads there?
We're talking about saving maybe one inch or less of wire.


 

1 hour ago, badpenguin said:

Firstly, it's an output jack. Secondly, it may be best just to get a replacement. It's 55 years old, things just wear out.

OK thanks. My terminology can get really messed up with guitars.

Circa 1995 makes it around 27 years old, but that's still quite old.
(I have more than one ES-175).

And how would you approach the replacement?

Because of the logistics (the output jack won't fit through the f-hole).
I'll need to get it out through the pickup hole (hopefully it will make it out the neck pickup hole,
as the other hole was plugged a long time ago).

How do you open up an enclosed jack?
Or do you bother? Cut the wire at the jack?
Have you done these operations on a hollow body?
Thanks!

 

OK folks I could use some expert help now. 

I figured this would be a routine fix but no.
I am getting a crackling sound at the input jack on my Gibson ES-175 (circa 1995).

First thing I did was research how to take out the jack properly/easily.
None of the pieces of wire I tried to insert into the input jack were going into the body !!!

Finally I gave up and just dropped the jack into the body, realizing I'd need to fish it out later
and fish it back into its hole.

REASON WHY I couldn't insert any wire through the jack into the body?
It's a non-standard input jack! It's ENLCOSED !!!

So how do I properly clean out this jack?

What was the reason they decided to put an enclosed jack rather an open one?
If it was to prevent it from getting dirty, it didn't do the trick.

Should I try to clean it out or just buy an new open one?

Any other tips?

1 hour ago, Mikeo said:

Not really. I have a very old Schotz 100X, but by that time they put in a side mount jack to plug in the power supply. I have actually never put batteries in min. I guess it open with a coin or something. I heard they were hell and ate batteries like no tomorrow.

I don't have the box for mine, but it's in killer shape, with maybe some fine scratches in it a best. Headphones are in good shape and the foam hasn't gone to hell in the 30 years I have had it. I took the belt clip off when I first got it. It might be at my dads house. 

Yours has the power supply that goes where the batteries go. I do remember that.

It's looks like it has a spring clip that locks it in the battery compartment.

 

Thanks Mikeo.

I guess you missed my Edit-Update to my original post.

Shortly after I posted I figured out how to remove the power adapter that was plugged into the unit.
My clue came when I found the cover for the battery section.

It was a crude design. You need to wedge something in between the power adapter and the case
to pop out the power adapter! 

Yes times have changed since this 'cutting edge' piece of hardware was invented.
I have the original unit, the one before the X100.

This is the original Rockman Amp!!!

I have the power adapter snapped onto the unit.
It attaches where there batteries would go.
I have no clue on how to remove it now.

Anyone have any ideas? I don't want to break anything.

Just figured it out! 

Any buyers?
I'm selling the original.

11 hours ago, daddymack said:

Back to the original question: I would un-solder all the leads from the pick-up at the pots.

Don't cut anything.

If you are removing the switch to save weight, you have some rewire work to do...otherwise you have a 'kill-switch'....

Then please pack that pickup in a nice cardboard box, and ship it to me. PM me when it is ready.

I will find it a good home.

I won't ask it where the 'bad man touched it'.😉

 

Thanks daddym.

If you read the post carefully you will see I fixed the problem already.
I'll be keeping the switch as a kill-switch (same as I did on several other guitars).
I'll be keeping the pickup for future generations. 

13 minutes ago, daddymack said:

sacrilege!

Yeah I felt the same way when I first saw Metheny's hack job on his Gibson pickup. 

But eventually I got over it.

1 hour ago, badpenguin said:

Ok, the "encapsulated pots" tells me it was an Aria made in the late 70's. I get why and what you are doing, but it's so much easier to just BUY what you need. And you aren't defacing a guitar I would probably love.

Actually it's a Gibson ES-175 1968. 

Of course it would be much easier to buy what I need. But I make many impulse buys when I'm at a specialty guitar store.
I have rarely if ever regretted those buys. Sometimes months, sometimes years after I make these buys I get around
to customizing the guitar to the way I would like it to be.
In this case I bought the guitar at least 3-4 years ago (still the original flat-wound strings) and I had the urge to lighten
it up after thinking how many times I've used the neck pickup (0 times).

The removal of the neck pickup has proven awesome once again.

I forgot to mention I also removed the pick guard. When I replace the tailpiece I will have shaved off close
to a pound in total!

Yeah I admit I'm a bit weird and unconventional.

Thanks for helping out guys.

I'll answer your questions and explain what I did.

The two main reasons I opt to remove the unused pickup and its pots are:

1. Decrease the weight of the guitar
2. Improve the sound of the guitar

I often stand when I play my guitars and even reducing the weight by a few ounces can make a
noticeable difference to playing comfort.
By removing the pickup and its pots I decreased the weight of my guitar by 239 gm (.52 lbs).
That is substantial!

And I'm not finished yet. For now I am, but I will eventually replace the tailpiece which is
unnecessarily heavy.

Heck, I've replaced the machine heads and even buttons on them on my acoustic guitars
to lighten the guitars.

I strung up the guitar last night after cutting out the pickup and pots and immediately
noticed an improvement in sound. The sound was more "acoustic"  and had that nice Gibson
acoustic pop sound which I love (as opposed to solid body sound).

I ended up cutting out the parts. One reason was because this guitar was made, strangely,
with encapsulated pots! I had never seen that before in all my life.

After cutting the parts out I noticed I could have unsoldered the caps, but it was easier
just to cut the wires.

So that's it in nutshell. Now my next move will be to cut some wood to fill the pickup hole and paint
it to match the guitar top.

Hi Folks I could use a few tips here.

I am removing one pickup (bridge) from a double pickup archtop.
I've done this before, and it's worked, but the cuts were crude.
I'd like to know the best way to do it.
 

The two pickups are connected by grounding wire soldered to the pots.
Where should I make the cuts?
Any desoldering needed?

I've removed the neck pickup on several guitars with no regrets.
So little chance of ever putting it back in. Not selling this baby!

I have the pickup loose now, and the pots/jack are out dangling.

Thanks!

1 hour ago, Mikeo said:

If you have to buy some caps, might as well try the .22uf Orange Drops.

You could try the Black Beauties or Bumble Bees, but they tend to drift in value and might not give you the results you want more.

 

Sprague Caps were once made in this town. Sprague's technically has not existed since the 80's. I met RC Sprague a few times.

Now it a huge contemporary art museum. Home of the Solid Sound Wilco Fest and Fresh Grass.

Orange Drops, baby.

 

Sprague-> Penn Central-> Vishay-> ( now made and owned by) Cornell Dubilier

The secret to the Sprague caps is reliability, If it says it will take 400 volts, R.C. Sprague gave and extra 10%, like 440 Volts. 

 

Across the street from Mass Moca is what is now the Department of Social Services, bit at one time was the Sprague Research Center. I was in that building more than once and they used to give liquid nitrogen for lab experiments. A guy named Dr. Maher and a few investors bought it, and the eventually move to an industrial park in Adams Mass. Dr. Maher son started running the research facility and ran it to the ground.

That's all I know about capacitors.

Thanks Mikeo for the suggestion and photos.
That must have been a typo right?

It should be .022 uF right?