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Originally posted by gsHarmony By average level, do you mean RMS, or do you just mean that on average the signal should be around -18 dbfs? Your average/nominal signal should target your converters 0dbu reference, which, if you don't know it, -18dbfs is a good place. This reference varies depending on the interface, from between -20 t0 -12dbfs. Check with the manufacturer of your ADDA for specifics.

Within the digital domain, you can safely exceed 0dB Full Scale, with zero damage to your audio wave. If you like the sound of nails across the chalkboard I guess. I suggest you post some clips of your "music" that was recorded exceeding 0dbfs. Square waves are so pretty afterall, so nice and, well square.....

There is no reason to be afraid of using the master fader as required. There is if you're turning down the master fader to compensate for overshooting 0dbfs because track faders are too hot, slamming the summing. It has been proven over and over that, while there is considerable more headroom into the summing than in an analog console, it is not infinite, and there is clear sonic and dynamic difference when paying close attention to what's going into (PFL) the mix buss. There is no reason to worry about digital channels exeeding 0dB, not until you reach the D/A converter. 0db no, 0dbfs most definitely. excedding 0dbfs makes for a noise that is absolutely not musical in any sense.

I mix through a digi board anyway, so I can see what's going on at every stage. And here is the big misunderstanding. What you don't see on most digital interfaces is what is going INTO the mix buss, the metering on the mix bus is POST FADER. Leave that master fader at 0, and see what your meters say. That's what's going into the mix buss. Pulling down the master fader 10db to compensate for poor fader positions which result because of recording too hot does NOT sound the same as recording proper nominal 0dbu inputs, leaving the master fader at 0, and adjusting the individuail track faders to prevent overshooting 0dbfs on the mix buss. While on the mix buss subject, again that same 0dbu reference should be observed for nominal levels going out of your DAW as well. Running your mix buss at or near 0dbfs leaves little to no room for the mastering engineer. (I'm sure Massive will have a comment on that as well.) I would love to see DAW and console manufacturers that have abandoned PFL on the mix buss to return that feature. SO many times I see engineers with all the faders at 0 and the master pulled way back, and the mix is just painful to listen to. Reverse that, keep the same output level on the mix buss, but lower track faders with the master fader at 0, and the mix opens up and sounds IMHO far better sonically.

Originally posted by TBush Yeah- what I meant was that the peaks would be "just under 0 (dBFS)"- digital has great headroom and no need to blow it there... NO, that's not correct. Again, slamming into the converters as close to 0dbfs is NOT the way to record into digital. Target your nominal, that means average input level at your converters 0dbu reference. that will leave more than sufficient headroom, typically around -6dbfs. Think about it, 24+ tracks, all peaking at -1dbfs, slamming into the summing buss....+18dbu x 24+ tracks....can you say distortion? There is absolutely no need to be peaking at or even near 0dbfs. all you're doing is eating up your headroom, meaning your faders actual or virtual) will be at the bottom of their throw to prevent summing smashing, leaving you little range of movement.

All the bits are used a 0dbfs. You lose one bit for every 6dbfs, so -18dbfs is using 21 bits.

And the standards for Digi interfaces vary also. For instance, the 001 was -18dbfs=0dbu, whereas the 002 is -14dbfs. Also consider this: 0dbu+0dbu=+6dbu. While digital summing is much more forgiving, it too has a finite limit. Imagine 30+ tracks, recorded at .5dbfs peaks, with all the faders at 0. Your master fader ends up around -50 in order to keep from overshooting 0dbfs. You're pounding the crap out of the summing amps. This is probably the #1 mistake new engineers make. Forget everything you ever heard or knew about analog tape, none of those rules apply. By simply keeping your nominal levels within the parameters discussed (ie targeting the converters 0dbu reference to dbfs), all other things equal, your end result will sound far, far better in audio quality. It's simple, and it is very, very effective.

One can (as I have suggested many times) DIY room tuning for very very short money. There is a wealth of info available free online about the subject. Getting new monitors is not the answer to a bad room. The DIYer can tune a room for less than the price of a modest set of monitors, and achieve superior results without replacing what may be perfectly good monitoring, only to find that the room acoustics are the issue. Learning about the acoustics of recording is IMHO essential basics that the beginner can greatly benefit from before exploring better quality equipment. As we all know, the best gear in the world won't make a bad room sound good. However this has nothing to do with the posters question about levels.

You may be misleading people in that a pristine recording is required to be a GOOD recording. Actually what I said was "...proper levels are the most important factor in digital recording." As engineers our role, whether it is for our own music or someone elses, it sot capture it in the best manner possible given the equiment and limitations therein. Recording at the properly levels, in this case not slamming the input levels nominally over the 0dbu reference, is IMHO a crutial part of the process. What people want to listen to, and how it's recorded are two entirely different subjects. There is some amazing music that sounds like ass, but spiritually moves me. The other side of the coin, there is a whole heap of music that sounds great but wouldn't ever make its way to my ears for more time than it takes to turn it off. Music will move you no matter how it is recorded, however IMHO ignoring the basic fundamentals of recording because of that is not ignorance, it's stupidity, and great music will suffer.

Yea, he's my alterego. I spend sleepless nights thinking of ways to torment your sensitive ego. I posted my opinion. You keep fornicating this pissing contest to stroke your ego. Once again, don't like what I post, don't read it, it's that simple. Record at whatever the {censored} level you want, but please go piss in someone elses ear, I'm sure I'm not the only one sick of your whining.

Like I said, no one is forcing you to read my posts.

Once again the relationship between opinions and assholes is shown by example.

Originally posted by Lee Knight Yes Where, you can get a lot more humble than that and IMHO opinion you should. The heat of other

The heat of others opinions Lee. This is a public forum, we are free to express our opinions, and to have others express theirs. We are also free to read or not read whatever we choose. If my posts upset you that much I suggest you use the ignore function. FYI, IMHO stands for in my humble opinion, but I suspect you know that. Can't get much more humble than that.

Originally posted by The Chinese Dude, get over yourself. I'm just tellin' the guy to enjoy himself. That's all. There's tons of time to worry about perfect recordings as his skill increases. The Music is what's important, not the perfectly captured Guitar sound or Kick drum sound. Getting proper levels, and understanding that they are about is increasing his skill level. It's not very enjoyable fighting to get a decent mix because your tracking levels sucked. Originally posted by The Chinese I don't know why you have such a hard on for me, but whatever. Maybe you don't really enjoy what you do, or are frustrated by your life or whatever, I don't know. What I do know is that you should really lighten up a bit, and recognize the validity of the big picture- it's music, and it's supposed to be joyful. Can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. I love what I do, that's why I do it, and I have a wonderful, love filled life. Proper input levels are part of the big picture. If it doesn't sound good, and you have to struggle in mix to get to to sound even OK, it's not very enjoyable now is it? Originally posted by The Chinese There's been a number of people that you have gone out of your way to insult or antagonize- You've even had your own thread dedicated to you calling you out- and I just don't understand it. This is a place where we're supposed to help each other, so I suggest getting on board. Can't please all the people all the time. Your advise IMHO was not helping, it was misleading. Again, if you can't take the heat, then don't post. Forums like this are for sharing info and ideas, and a fantastic place for newcomers to get started in understanding how the recording process works. Crutial to that is getting proper input levels. The process if far more enjoyable when it is understood, done properly, and yields a satisfying end result. YMMV.

Bottom line, is don't sweat it too much, just record healthy but not hitting the top,- leave yourself some headroom, and you'll be fine. More importantly, have fun and stop worrying too much about htis kinda stuff.... This is about the worst advise regarding quality recording anyone could give. Apart from the obvious mic choice, position tuning, etc., to get good sounds going in, proper levels are the most important factor in digital recording. Stay conservative, understand what your meters are telling you, and pay attention to them.

Sing over rather than into the mic. You will get a warmer, less sibilant tone. Place the mic so the center of the diaphram is just below your chin. If it's still to sibilant, lower it a bit more. For tracks already recorded, use a de-esser.

Put an ad in the Musicians section of Craigslist London forum for a trumpet player.

IMHO a 414 is a far more versatile mic than the SM7. It will sound killer on the acoustic (a pair is my defined go to aku setup) and I've not found a vocal it didn't at least sound moderately great on. Stretch to a grand, and you can get a pair of them used.

I can see it for slide and dobro, where you don't necessarily want much top end, but the poster specificed acoustic, which leads to believe not slide or dobro, where you do want good clear top end clarity that a condensor provides.

Originally posted by gsHarmony Does this mean there is someplace where I can get a NTK for $400? Everywhere I've looked, the price is around $500. I would probably buy one right now if I could find one for $400. Check e-bay.

SM7 is a great vocal mic, but IMHO it's not going to do an acoustic guitar much justice.

Rode NTK or AKG C414B-ULS. You can get a pair of NTKs and mic the acoustic in stereo...

Ipods and Itunes play many formats besides MP3, .wav, .aiff, AAC, etc.

Yet iTunes can....I find it odd that Apple designs iTunes to be 24 bit compatible but not the iPod.