SKYNETRP

Originally posted by CompleteGuitard I think you need to take it easier on those guys. They don't know how much you know about gear, they can't read your mind and they don't know your past. I think he was just trying to help you, is that really THAT offensive that you'd treat him like that? Those guys make a living mostly off commission so of course they're going to try to push product on you, going in there you have to understand that. If it was how you fed yourself you'd do it too. And sales jobs aren't fun dude, customers with crappy attitudes only make it worse. They're already taking pressure to sell, as well as pressure on themselves to sell as much as possible so they can eat or pay rent, and here you come in knowing everything and don't even want to listen. Sounds like the problem is not with GC. Good post..........sales is never a fun job, not when you only get commission, which may be the case for GC, I don't know. However, a good salesman always knows something about every piece of merchandise in the store that he/she is selling. It just takes some studying on his/her part. Some people will not buy from an unimformed sales clerk, because there are always some little details about a product that can make the difference between a sale and a non-sale. I personally don't care, I usually already know what I need before I go in there, but some people are too lazy to do the research and want the sales person to know the info. Now the flip side of the coin...............Sales people see customers every day that only come in to try out an item and then leave and buy it online.........using the store to only test new gear, and that gets very depressing for you if you make your living on sales. So some of then figure "WTF?" and let it get to them, thus, someone gets bad service because of it down the road that day. I am sure it gets very hard to keep a good attitude when you have customers who come in several times before reaching into their pockets as well. You put in all the work and someone else gets the commission because you had the day off when that customer finally does come in and buy something. So there is two sides to the coin, and it gets complicated sometimes due to circumstances. All in all, I have never had a problem at GC, but I have only been there once........LOL!!!!

Originally posted by Raths The McDonalds here in Nebraska has all educated experienced fat guys working there. I went there a few weeks ago for the first time for a set of fries......it's close to the house, and fries are fries. I never went there before because of their reputation for hiring idiots. I was taken completely off guard when I found that they actually knew their business! I talked to the manager and asked if he was hiring and talked to him about the service that I got. Believe it ir not, this store hired all experienced fat guys BECAUSE of the horrible reputation that McDonalds has gotten over the years! The manager is an experienced fat guy which helps a lot in the hiring and firing around there.......LOL. He told me "Nebraska has a lot of unemployed fat guys so it was pretty easy to hire a decent staff" and laughed. I thought that you would get a kick out of this! (soyrry had to do it!) L8R Raths HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thu:

Originally posted by septopus Guitar Center here in Tucson and in Scottsdale has always been great, courteous, fairly knowledgable, good prices and great return policy. I would never compare those two stores to any Wal-Mart I've been to. I'm starting to see a pattern here............do you think that demographics have anything to do with it? I live in a city full of musicians out of work, thus the GC has a good staff? Is location that important?

Originally posted by chu2 I hate that thing. ESPECIALLY considering they own GC. It's the wal-mart of music stores. Horrible. Good selection, crappy service by college kids who don't know anything about guitar. I walked in there once and a guy walks up to me and asks me if I need help and I tell him I'm just looking. I start checking out some teles, strats, etc. The dude walks up to me and asks me if there's anything I'm looking for. I tell him I'm just looking for something to blow my christmas money one and, since I'm not old enough to be considered as an experienced guitarist, the dude tells me that the first thing I have to decide on is if I like the two-pickup gibson system or the three pickup fender system, while I'm standing right here staring at a DISTINCLY TWO-PICKUP FENDER TELECASTER. I almost told him that I perfer two-pikcup telecasters and three-pickup Black Beauty 'Pauls, but I just walked out of the store. Plus the smoke on the water playing over the din in that place was annoying the heck out of me. So GC sucks, at least around here. And I don't like MF becase they support GC. I'll be shopping at my tiny local store from now on, which I like much better. Those guys actually somewhat know what they're talking about. The Guitar Center here in Memphis has all educated experienced musicians working there. I went there a few weeks ago for the first time for a set of strings......it's close to the house, andstrings are strings. I never went there before because of their reputation for hiring idiots. I was taken completely off guard when I found that they actually knew their business! I talked to the manager and asked if he was hiring and talked to him about the service that I got. Believe it ir not, this store hired all experienced musicians BECAUSE of the horrible reputation that GC has gotten over the years! The manager is an experienced musician which helps a lot in the hiring and firing around there.......LOL. He told me "Memphis has a lot of unemployed musicians so it was pretty easy to hire a decent staff" and laughed. I thought that you would get a kick out of this!

Originally posted by jason@amps Yes, the front loaded to rear loaded speakers do make a difference. Taller oversized cabs sound different as well. Especially when you have 32 speakers to deal with..the difference is a lot then.........LOL.

Originally posted by jason@amps These were both new cabs or was one used? Sounds to me like one cab had been played and the speakers had been broken in. Also which brand or cabs are we talking about here and were they both (oversized) straight or slant? All this makes a good bit of diference in tone of the speaker. I believe the only cab that comes with UK made Vintage 30's is the Mesa/Boogie. They only carry new equipment. Both cabs were slant cabs, regular size, and both were thick frame cabs. One was a Marshall with V30's, the other was a Splawn with V30's, or maybe it was a Voodo, I don't remember right now, but I can call him and find out about the Spalwn or the Voodo. This was over a month ago. I am pretty sure it was a Splawn though.

Originally posted by jason@amps Actually I don't believe there are sound differences between the Chinese and UK made Celestion speakers. I don't know where you heard this from? Here's some threads from the horses mouth (look for Celestion101). I just searched for a couple. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1161759 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1157769 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1092545 I got this info in two ways. First off, I heard the info from a Mom And Pop music store that caters to high end amps and guitars. They carry Marshall, Matchless, Vox, Mesa, Splawn, Voodo, and a lot more amps. They also carry PRS (they had over 100 PRS), McEnturf, Gibson, ESP, DeAngelico, and a lot of great guitars too. Quite an assortment for a Mom And Pop establishment music store. The owner told me this when I told him about the great prices on the Carvin cabs. So I challenged him about it and he laughed and said....."There are two cabs over there that have English and Chinese V30's in them.........go see for yourself" So I did. The English ones were warmer and richer sounding to me, and reminded me of the Marshall cabs from long ago. But the Chinese V30's were very strong and sturdy sounding, with a little less bass response and the mids were less defined to me, and the highs were a little crisp to me too. All in all, I liked BOTH speakers, and I would have to decide which were for me in the long run.

Originally posted by jason@amps Your right. Call Mesa/Boogie up. Mesa has there Vintage 30's built in England, this is right from Celestion. Plus they Mod them as well just like you said. They also mod there MC90 speaker. I told ya that the English V30 sounded different than the Chinese ones, but I am going to call Cellestian to confirm the other mod you are talking about. I don't see them making a mod like that for one company, but I will wait and hear it from the horses mouth first. I hate to be wrong because I didn't do the research!

Originally posted by danhops OOPS!!! Sorry for posting. My bad. tucks tail between legs:( LOL! That's not what I meant and you know it!! But we are comparing cabs with identical speakers and similar enclosures, that's all I meant.............. :thu:

Originally posted by danhops I dont know about the Legacy cabs, but I dont like the MTS cabs with the Carvin Speakers. Dont kow if its the cab or the speakers, but I hated the way that cab sounded. The whole point here is two almost identical cabs with the same V30 speakers, and if there are any differences in those two cabs sound.

Originally posted by Sordid1 well my aing so far was about a month apart from each other but we took his head to the shop and put a Mesa 4x12 thru it's paces and then he bought the carvin and the difference didn't seem like much. Of course a few weeks had passed and that can change your minds memory quite a bit on sounds. Oh, absolutely. I want to hear from someone who has both cabs hooked up with an A/B switcher, so you can change cabs during a note or a chord. That will be the real test.

Originally posted by Sordid1 Well I don't own either cab so I won't have a problem being unbiased (if I get to do this he may come get his cab first). If I do get to I have an MXR eq laying around that I can try out as well. Great! I will be looking forward to what you find out if you get to do this............good luck. I am not saying that the other guy who already did an A/B on them is not telling the truth, but it just sounded to me like there was far too much difference in the cabs when he described it.

Originally posted by Sordid1 well my ex-guitarist hasn't come to pick his Legacy cab yet and I think I have a guy coming to audition for the band that has a Mesa cab so I hopefully will get to a them. Kewl, let us know what you find. And please be unbiased. I really AM interested in what you find. I am going to buy like 4 of those cabs soon, and I would like to know what you find first. But you have to be fair. Also if there IS a difference, will you try an independant GEQ before AND after the head on the Carvin and tell us if you can match the Mesa that way?

Originally posted by Sordid1 I guess we all hear things a bit differently and while I think the Mesa cabs are top notch I honestly can't tell much difference with the Carvin cab with the same speakers. For good reason too. Now, if you were to A/B the cabs, I am sure you can hear a little difference, but not enough to make that price unfavorable for a Carvin.

Originally posted by MattACaster This is what I've heard. Mesa just took it upon themselves to rate the speakers higher. It's just a sales ploy, and I don't think it is illeagl as long as the speakers can actually handle the wattage.

Originally posted by rockstrongo The Vintage 30's that go into Mesa cabs are rated 10 watts higher than standard Vintage 30's. Yeah, but they are still the same as the Carvins or Marshalls as far as their actual wattage, I have looked at the specs on all of them and called Celestian.........Mesa just rated them a little higher, because they can handle the wattage, and more, so it is safe to do that. HOWEVER.........I was told by Celestian that the Chinese V30's from their Asian plant are definitely different sounding than the English ones for some reason that they won't tell me so far.

Originally posted by tlbonehead Older = better. They switched from birch to a cheaper grade of plywood the last couple years. Still very decent,though. The Legacy are still Birch, but they may be the only ones now.

Originally posted by tlbonehead They are fairly shallow so their internal volume is a bit less than the more modern cabs. Therefore,the f3 is going to be a bit higher. So maybe you were just trying to coax frequencies out of them that are below their tuning. I would definitely try some post EQ, and see what happens, because those Carvin Legacy cabs are really nice cabs and a hell of a good price. maybe with post EQ you can make them more to your liking......otherwize, I may buy it from ya.

Originally posted by Locky Having AB'ed both of them I can tell you first hand that they are worlds apart. Despite both having V30's they sounds quite different. I found the Mesa alot thicker with a larger and deeper bottom end. The Legacy was much thinner and brighter. Also it should be noted that the V30's in Mesa cabs are different then regular Celestion V30's. OH really? How are the V30's different? I already know the answer, or at least one of them..........there are Chinese made V30's and English made V30,s and the Englicsh ones sound a lot different......is that it?

Originally posted by sgmarshall The marhall cab is 2 " taller than a carvin cab, Marshall also rear mounts it's speakers, Carvin front mounts. Does make for a difference in tone. But for the price, my next cab will probably be carvin. The 2 inches will make a little difference, but not the front loaded part. Plus you have to remember that front loaded speakers give you a little more internal room inside the cab adding a tiny bit of tonal difference as well. It's only about 1/2 inch per speaker, but it's still there, and since I have 32 speakers, it will made a decent difference for me..

Originally posted by Dropped_2_C i have one the speakers are front loaded and they contain g12's i personally don't care for it but if you are on a budget they are not that bad i bought a mts head off of a guy and he gave me the cab, so in that respect it's not bad, you can't be free True, but the V30 Legacy's are a totally different animal, you should hear one, you'll like it.

Originally posted by LennonLives Heard one last weekend with a DSL and it sounded overly bright and irritable. I do not suggest one with a Marshall, but I heard one with a Carvin MTS an dit sounded decent, but those MTS' are underrated! C'mon guys, these cabs are almost identical to the Marshalls, except the Carvin's are made of pure Birch instead of "pot puree" plywood. Maybe the birch is brighter sounding, most likely not, but you can easily just use some external EQ to fix that, but I really don't think I heard ANY difference between Marshall And Carvin cabs with V30's in them. You may have been hearing a badly set Marshall head, ya know?

Originally posted by Sordid1 I have to disagree on this one. First of all the Marshalls come with the gt1275's and the Legacy cabs have the V30's which are identical to the Mesa cabs speakers. If you put a traditional Mesa cab next to a Carvin Legacy cab the differences should be slim to none. Don't the Mesa's have an semi-open back with two different kinds of speakers?? I thoughtthe better Mesa's had that.

Originally posted by Locky There's a Carvin Legacy cab at my rehearsal space. It is quite a bright cab. I find it alot like a Marshall 1960A cab but with a slightly larger low end. I don't know what they sell for but I wasn't too impressed with the cabs overall. They don't hold a candle to Mesa cabs. They are not intended to be like a Mesa, they are intended to be like a Marshall, which they are, only better made and more bottom end, and the cost is $499.............that's right, almost half cost of a Marshall with V30's. I would say the Carvin is a great deal. And I like them better than Mesa cabs myself, but that's a matter of taste and tone.

Originally posted by Sordid1 That's kind of an odd statement and half true. The build quality is better than marshall and pretty close to Mesa or the other good cab companies. For speakers they all come with different ones i.e. the Legacy cabs come with Celestion V30's and the V3 cabs come with Celestion Gt7512's. For the money there is no better value on the market (well maybe avatar). The Avitars are not made the same, they are a thin style frame like a Fender, while the Carvin Legacy is a thick frame like a Marshall........the Carvins are far better sounding to me, and heavier duty cabs for road wear and better bottom end.