moody

Posting here for the first time in years.  I think my last post was about having been a member for a decade.....

Wow. A like for a post from before likes existed.

I had to re-set my password to figure my way back onto this forum.

Such vim and vigor looking at the 27 year old me fighting so hard for something that really didn't matter or affect me.

Personal experience, 16 mixers in a technical college classroom, (not rotten high school use). Bolted to the desks and without things being plugged in / unplugged constantly. In a period of less than a year all but 3 had a variety of things go wrong with them (usually dead channels). Luckly there was a tech there who constantly repaired them rather than trying to get anything from warranty.

My own experience is with about 6 different items, all of which performed below my expectations. The worst is the 31 channel eq which cut in and out with loud pops through the PA each time (faulty LED's on the faders). Other experience involved high noise with virtually everything and any time there was an 'electronic' pot rather than a manual pot it would go wrong in pretty short order (virtualiser kept reverting to setting zero, v-amp that wouldn't change settings).

Finally putting up my setup on this thread.

I am in a weekend warrior type situation running sound from on stage. Rock to hard rock (lots of acdc/zeppelin type stuff). I have built this system up slowly and probably not particularly smartly over several years. Largely second hand and cheap. Mostly used for crowds up to 150 people. Usually far less.

Have run sound maybe 15 times so far in various situations, but have helped with sound through other engineers a lot more than that. Starting to get more regular gigs now.

2 yamaha 12" speakers on sticks (don't remember model number)
2 Etone single 15" folded horns, bought cheap, big, heavy, but loud, solid and reliable.
2 EV 12" wedges - These have been good since day one.
2 Custom made wedges with Nessel speakers. Close to the ev's in quality
1 Peavey PV2000 power amp (4 unit brick)
1 Yamaha P3200 power amp
2 ZPE 600 power amps (4 unit bricks)
Soundcraft M12 mixing board (modified for 4 pre fader sends)
3 Ross 31 band eq's (single rack unit)
1 Dbx 166xl compressor
Audiopile drum mics
2 Ramsa vocal mics
1 SM58
Various basic mics and di boxes.
Several par56's (4 on a stand) and a large number of mini par m16's.

Overall I am happy with the sound I get in the given situation. Of all the components the mains and the vocal mics are the weakest points.

My main problems with this system are to do with weight, setting up and transport. I'm currently working on replacing the brick amplifiers, I am also working out better/easier ways to connect up the components. I currently have no snakes or pre-wired racks.

Between good setting up, decent mics and decent wedges i do not have any feedback problems. I keep my foldback settings unchanged from gig to gig and I think only one frequency is slightly turned down.

I don't run eq on the mains and the sound out the front is fine being perfectly flat - I also don't run eq on the drum fill and don't have a singing drummer.

So far I haven't had power problems. Played without all my lights the other week with everything on stage running of a single circuit - no problem.

Essentially I know my limitations. I don't claim that this rig will do really big gigs but for the places we play it has been absolutely fine.

Can I try to correct that horrible car analogy....

You have a car traveling along at 60mph. Lets say that it is running a 2 litre 4 cylinder engine and upon measurement in top gear it was going 4000 revs per minute.

Now, if you dropped in an 8 cylinder 4 litre engine, and got that going at 4000 revs per minute in the same gear (presuming it could plug into the same gearbox). On the same street in the same conditions.

Do you think that car would still travel at 60mph? would it travel at 120mph?
Engine capacity is doubled therefore you should expect double speed?

My guess is probably somewhere in between - much the same as the 3db addition that this is an analogy to.

Can anyone add to that?

How much for the sm58 cartridge to be shipped to Aus (by the cheapest method)?

Originally posted by jimihalen

I'm not really sure of how I'm meant to take that....

????

Originally posted by jimihalen +1. Now ask about Rush in the HCEG forum, where they favor talent and ability over pedal usage.

Sorry, just cruising forums at the moment, I don't really think I can handle the Electric guitar forum (I'm a bass player and tend to hang around bass and live sound forums).

I don't use any pedals.

True that all those bands have had membership changes, however core members seem to remain the same with each of them.

With KC, all the main members have been in it over 10 years and a couple over 20 years (lead singer and the Fripp himself) - they have lost a couple of members in that time, but they have not been replaced. Every album whether by new members or not is a new direction.

In the case of Yes, true they have changed members several times - but they are currently anderson, white, squire, howe and wakeman - sound familiar?? Injecting new blood appears to be taking on the old blood again.

As for Jethro tull, completely untrue, I don't think much of their recent albums but they have had the exact same line up for over 10 years at the moment, and all but one for around 15 years. (and again, lead singer and guitarist are over 30 years). In terms of live playing I think they are the best they have ever been.

Same sort of thing I would think. Volvo, Toyota camry, Nissan bluebird or skyline. Basically get a good consumer car in your price range that has a stationwagon version. Fuel economy no worse than the sedan equivelent.

The obvious answer is King Crimson.

Depending on what you consider musically evolving you could also include Jethro Tull. (definately better musical proficiency than they have ever had before).

You could also add Yes and the Moody Blues to the mix - however the new music isn't really in any way evolved from that which came previously.

Ok, going through a bit of the song list from my band, (really traditional cover band stuff). You may find some more difficult and less difficult than what I do - depending on your guitar and vocal skills.

Practice them really slowly seperately, and then together. None of them are as easy as bad moon rising.

Easy:
Cocaine - Eric Clapton
Summer Of '69 - Brian Adams
Love Potion No. 9 - Hermins Hermits
Proud Mary - Creedence Clearwater Revival

Medium, generally harder rhythms:
April Sun in Cuba - Dragon
You Really Got Me - Kinks
All Right Now - Free
Rockin' Me Baby - Steve Miller Band

Getting difficult: (if you play the riffy bits of the guitar parts).
Play That Funky Music White Boy - Wild Cherry
Other Side - Red Hot Chilli Pepper

It is not the fact that it is a single note line, it is the fact that generally a bass line rhythm will not follow the same rhythm as the vocal.

That's why I recommended bad moon rising - the rhythm guitar and bass follow the rhythm of the vocals exactly.

It's a case of both practice and compromise.

Practice really easy stuff to learn how to do it. Things like bad moon rising - basically stuff with a straight on the beat rhythm and a straight on the beat melody. Keep practicing until you get it and then go on to a slightly harder song.

Compromise. know your limitations (at least at this point) and work around them. There are some places where you will not be able to play the guitar part at the same time as singing, so you will have to simplify the guitar part, or the vocal part, so that you can do it.

As a bass player, bass is a lot harder to sing and play at the same time than guitar, so in a lot of songs I end up simplifying parts so that I just play root 8th notes or something while singing backup. Doesn't stop me being a technical bass player at other times, it just means I can put the bass playing on automatic while I sing.

But then you listen to a song with 5 different dominant seventh chords and realise that everything in the above post is useless if the songwriter used secondary dominants.

Any chord can be a dominant seventh leading to a resolution a fifth down, but that resolution may be any one of the chords diatonic to the key.

Yes listen out for the dominant chord, but learn to ignore it if it doesn't go where you expect it to.

What I said was that what you wrote was what I believed was right, but that I wasn't willing to trust my instincts on it.

I didn't say you were wrong - re-read my posts.

Originally posted by LosBoleros

It's been many years for me but I can remember it like it was yesterday.

 

 

I didn't think there were minor chords, but I wasn't going to trust my instinct.  I play the bass line twice a week but that doesn't tell me much.

A D G D

That's from a bass player perspective so it's only the root notes. But you should be able to figure out the actual chords given that information.

He can set up his computer to do it for almost nothing. 4 tracks are really outdated technology - digital multitracks or computer workstations depending on your situation are the way to go.

Add into that your seventh chords

C E G B

and you get your third inversion

B C E G

There is also a bastard, and usually unrecognised 4th inversion which uses the 9th in the bass:

D C E G B

No reason we have to. One of the things about harmonising in diatonic thirds is that it is possibly the most limited harmonisation possible. There is not interest to it and it sounds thin and empty.

Also, If your melody has a chromatic note in it, that isn't present in another mode, what are you going to do? Especially if the chromatic note moves to a scale tone, the harmony in the other modes may miss a note outright.

Many melody notes are defined as being a part of an 'approach pattern' If you can identify the approach pattern then you will be able to harmonise the melodies approach non-diatonically.

As such, harmony should generally be approached chordally, as opposed to diatonically - works better especially if you have more than one harmony line.

Work out the chord, then what the melody is in relation to that chord (for example, a chord tone, a tension, a diatonic approach note, a chromatic approach note or an anticipation.

Harmonise to the melody in relation to this chord - depending on the style the melody will generally be the top voice with the harmony voices beneath.

I know this doesn't work for all styles (barbershop and a lot of popular music for example has a descant style harmony above the melody).

So we are all saying the same thing and calling it different names.

I can see what LosBoleros is on about, the same sort of thing as having a minor or major version of a melody but applied to all modes (not just ionian and aeolian) - I wouldn't call that parralel modes though.

I'm sorry, I may be misreading but none of this seems right to me. It looks like you are overcomplicating things, and getting the term parralel mode mixed up with a totally different concept.

To be playing in C ionion and having a line a diatonic third above, you are still in C ionian - all the notes used are from C ionian and the basic melody is C ionian. All you are doing is going three diatonic steps up from wherever the melody is. This is standard practice for figuring out harmonies.

A parralel mode as I have learnt it would be, for example, C lydian. This could be used to give a different sound to a melody if used carefully. It would also be used to justify, for example, a D major 7 chord in a C progression.

It would depend on the key and the chord going on underneath the solo as to what you would call the notes. The interval itself would always be the same - both a fourth and a fifth at the same time.

Originally posted by Poparad


Here are a few voicings off the top of my head that I use for Cmaj11:

I'll have a look at those chords tonight.  As a 5 string bass player I'm not exactly instant for figuring out where notes are on the upper sections of a guitar.  Esspecially not from tab.