Which speaker for Classic 30? Weber Blue Dog or Silver Bell?

[guitarman3001]

I hadn't planned on swapping out the stock speaker but at last band practice I did notice some ice picky highs that I couldn't dial out even with the treble at 0.

 

I also happened to recently do my taxes and as it turns out I have a couple of bucks coming back to me...so....looks like I will be able to get a new speaker for it.

 

I've read up on the blue dog and the silver bell and both tend to get great reviews in the C30.

 

So, couple of questions...

 

Which one has smoother highs and will give me a warmer tone?

 

Second, looking on Weber's site, they say this about wattage - As with all Weber speakers, the higher the power rating, the warmer and smoother the speaker. The 15 watt is aggressive, bright, with a strong midrange crang. At the other end, the 100 watt is warm, smooth, yet is detailed and clear with very good definition. The 75 and 100 watt models use very high temperature voice coils that are the same weight and mass as the lower power voice coils. So, if I want the warmest possible tone, does this mean I should get a 100 watt one or would this not sound good given that the C30 is a 30 watt amp?

 

Third, when you order the speaker, you can get it doped or undoped. According to them, doping means -- Doping is the shiny goop you see on the surround of a speaker. Besides extending the life of the surround, it also acts as a shock absorber to help keep the cone under control at higher volumes. The downside is that it also dampens cone vibrations and therefore reduces the potential character and texture of the speaker. If you are going to bend/sustain notes in the area above the 10th fret on the high E string and at high volumes with heavy distortion, then you need the doping to help prevent ghost notes and cone cry that could result from the extreme cone vibrations. Othewise, I would get the speaker undoped. Many players prefer the raw, undamped tone of the undoped speaker and they learn to modulate their finger pressure when noting in the area that causes cone cry. Given that I do find myself above the 10th fret on the high E quite often, does should I get it doped or undoped? Also, you can pick light, moderate, or heavy doping.

 

Last, should I get the ceramic or alnico? The ceramic is much cheaper and I'm not really sure what the tonal differences are and if the alnico is worth paying almost twice as much.

 

 

Also, if someone has another speaker besides these they'd recommend, I'm open to suggestions.

[Electric Blues]

I have the Silver Bell alnico in my C30. Sorry I can't help you with answers for the Blue Dog.

 

My Silver Bell is the 75 watt model. I retubed my C30 with JJs and with the Silver Bell, get a wonderful, vintage, organic, tone. The highs roll off very nicely and it compresses well when turned up. Perfect for Blues and Classic Rock.

 

You'll have to practically take the amp apart to install the new speaker and the original was stuck the the front baffle... tough! The back cover of the Silver Bell is larger than the original too so I had to cut a piece out of the tube grill protector so I could install it again.

 

All it took was handtools and a Dremel to cut out the tube protection grill.

 

It was all worth it. The JJs and Silver Bell take the C30 into a whole other level.

[noize]

FWIW, I've been very impressed with the Scumback "Scumnico" in my AC-15

[bloolight]

I'm not familiar with either of those speakers, although I'm tempted to try a higher end Weber in my DRRI. I think the best thing to do if you're in doubt about the model to get is just to email the man, himself, and ask his advice. He seems very good about advising customers about the best speaker for the job.

[Electric Blues]

 

I'm not familiar with either of those speakers, although I'm tempted to try a higher end Weber in my DRRI. I think the best thing to do if you're in doubt about the model to get is just to email the man, himself, and ask his advice. He seems very good about advising customers about the best speaker for the job.

 

 

You can also try emailing the guys at Eurotubes. They are very familiar with these speakers and sell both online.

[craig_in_tx]

 

I'm not familiar with either of those speakers, although I'm tempted to try a higher end Weber in my DRRI. I think the best thing to do if you're in doubt about the model to get is just to email the man, himself, and ask his advice. He seems very good about advising customers about the best speaker for the job.

 

 

I just put a Weber 12F150 in my DRRI. I've still got to break it in some more, but I'm enjoying what I'm hearing so far. I was trying for more clean headroom so I opted for the 50W version with light dope.

[ugameus]

I have a blue dog and love it. However, I have never used a silver bell so I can't compare. I do want to get a 2x12 and put one of each in there.

 

Your best bet is to email Ted Weber. He is very helpful and knowledeable. He has answered many of my questions and has answered them quickly.

[xStonr]

If you want more of a warm, vintagey sound, either in the alnico flavor should do the job. My classic 30 sounds dark to me so I went with the Blue Dog ceramic to get some more chimey high end.

[Wyatt]

The Silver Bell is a little warmer and more Marshall-y of the two. The Blue Dog will be a little brighter and offer a little more upper-midrange chime. Otherwise they are similar, both will roll highs off before they get too ice-picky.

 

Ceramic will generally give you tighter bass and a little more volume (clean headroom) over the AlNiCo, the AlNiCo's real charm is how it compresses when pushed hard. Something about the AlNiCo is just a little more laid back and organic.

 

Go for a light to moderate doping, the difference isn't significant and it will help on the ghost noting.

 

As for the speaker to be broken in before shipped, you can request this in the comments section of the order.

[savoldi]

 

I hadn't planned on swapping out the stock speaker but at last band practice I did notice some ice picky highs that I couldn't dial out even with the treble at 0.

 

 

Treble at 0 and it was ice picky highs? Come on, dude. I wouldn't exactly say the stock 30 is known for that particular problem, and especially not with treble at 0. Admit it. You're a speaker swapper looking for a reason to swap. It's an epidemic around here.

[guitarman3001]

 

The Silver Bell is a little warmer and more Marshall-y of the two. The Blue Dog will be a little brighter and offer a little more upper-midrange chime. Otherwise they are similar, both will roll highs off before they get too ice-picky. Ceramic will generally give you tighter bass and a little more volume (clean headroom) over the AlNiCo, the AlNiCo's real charm is how it compresses when pushed hard. Something about the AlNiCo is just a little more laid back and organic. Go for a light to moderate doping, the difference isn't significant and it will help on the ghost noting. As for the speaker to be broken in before shipped, you can request this in the comments section of the order.

 

 

 

Cool. Looks like the silver bell might be the way to go for me. Any suggestions or ideas about the wattage rating?

[guitarman3001]

 

Treble at 0 and it was ice picky highs? Come on, dude. I wouldn't exactly say the stock 30 is known for that particular problem, and especially not with treble at 0. Admit it. You're a speaker swapper looking for a reason to swap. It's an epidemic around here.

 

 

Heh. I wish that were the case. I don't know if it's the rest of my gear or just my playing style but I've found almost every single tube amp I've owned or played through to be too bright for my tastes, particularly at band and stage volumes. There have been a few exceptions but on most of them I've always ended up setting the treble at 0 and still wanted to roll off more of the high end. On my palomino I was able to resolve it with new preamp tubes and weber beam blockers but even so, I still have the treble set at 1 most of the time.

 

On my B-52 I have it set at 0, even after a tube swap to JJs which are supposed to be dark sounding.

 

A DRRI was unplayable for me. Way too shrill and bright and with no mid control I couldn't even begin to start dialing it out.

 

I was able to get a good setting with a twin reverb. That amp's treble and mid controls are very good and have a wide range.

[DRPool]

 

I have the Silver Bell alnico in my C30. Sorry I can't help you with answers for the Blue Dog. My Silver Bell is the 75 watt model. I retubed my C30 with JJs and with the Silver Bell, get a wonderful, vintage, organic, tone. The highs roll off very nicely and it compresses well when turned up. Perfect for Blues and Classic Rock. You'll have to practically take the amp apart to install the new speaker and the original was stuck the the front baffle... tough! The back cover of the Silver Bell is larger than the original too so I had to cut a piece out of the tube grill protector so I could install it again. All it took was handtools and a Dremel to cut out the tube protection grill. It was all worth it. The JJs and Silver Bell take the C30 into a whole other level.

 

 

EB, I'm glad this worked out for you but if it were me there's no way I'd go hacking on my amp to swap speakers. I have swapped the original out of my 112e cab but no real effort was involved there.

 

Again, it's only me but there are a ton of speakers that should work great in the C30 that don't require tools and cutting. Check out the WGS stuff, good reviews around here, prices are decent and they fit.

[prolog]

 

Heh. I wish that were the case. I don't know if it's the rest of my gear or just my playing style but I've found almost every single tube amp I've owned or played through to be too bright for my tastes, particularly at band and stage volumes. There have been a few exceptions but on most of them I've always ended up setting the treble at 0 and still wanted to roll off more of the high end. On my palomino I was able to resolve it with new preamp tubes and weber beam blockers but even so, I still have the treble set at 1 most of the time. On my B-52 I have it set at 0, even after a tube swap to JJs which are supposed to be dark sounding. A DRRI was unplayable for me. Way too shrill and bright and with no mid control I couldn't even begin to start dialing it out. I was able to get a good setting with a twin reverb. That amp's treble and mid controls are very good and have a wide range.

 

 

Do you play with your tone knobs set at 10 all the time? I've never had the problem you describe with my C30, but I usually have tone set between 5 and 7. (Except when I set tone to 10 and set the amp's treble to 12 for a really raw sound)

[guitarman3001]

 

Do you play with your tone knobs set at 10 all the time? I've never had the problem you describe with my C30, but I usually have tone set between 5 and 7. (Except when I set tone to 10 and set the amp's treble to 12 for a really raw sound)

 

 

Yeah, for the most part I do have my guitar's tone knob wide open all the time. Once in a while I'll roll it back a little but most of the time it's open.

[guitarman3001]

 

EB, I'm glad this worked out for you but if it were me there's no way I'd go hacking on my amp to swap speakers. I have swapped the original out of my 112e cab but no real effort was involved there. Again, it's only me but there are a ton of speakers that should work great in the C30 that don't require tools and cutting. Check out the WGS stuff, good reviews around here, prices are decent and they fit.

 

 

What's WGS?

[RUExp?]

Mojo BV-30V

[HarpBoy]

 

Treble at 0 and it was ice picky highs? Come on, dude. I wouldn't exactly say the stock 30 is known for that particular problem, and especially not with treble at 0. Admit it. You're a speaker swapper looking for a reason to swap. It's an epidemic around here.

 

 

I was sort of thinking the same thing.....

 

I have a C30 and don't find that at all. I think folks look for a reason to swap stuff out, and that's OK, but let's just fess up. By the way, Peavey has a very informative whitepaper about speakers and power ratings buried in their website. I don't believe the stock Blue Marvel is a 30 watt speaker; I think it's rated higher than that.

 

You can find it herehttp://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_2.pdf.

[guitarman3001]

 

I was sort of thinking the same thing..... I have a C30 and don't find that at all. I think folks look for a reason to swap stuff out, and that's OK, but let's just fess up. By the way, Peavey has a very informative whitepaper about speakers and power ratings buried in their website. I don't believe the stock Blue Marvel is a 30 watt speaker; I think it's rated higher than that. You can find it here http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_2.pdf .

 

 

Believe me, I hate swapping stuff out. Like I said, I've had this issue with every tube amp I've owned. They're just too bright for me. I couldn't even play through the DRRI they have at the studio we rehearse at. It was overly bright to the point of being unplayable for me.

 

I don't want to swap the speaker, I've never swapped a speaker in any of the 10 or 15+ cabs I've ever owned. I'd much rather spend the money on another toy like a fuzz pedal or something like that. The only reason I'm considering swapping this speaker is because it's a single speaker. I have two 4x10 cabs, a 2x12, and a 4x12 cab sitting here next to me that I have no intentions of touching.

 

I don't know...maybe the beam blocker and putting a 5751 tube in V1 will solve it and I won't have to swap the speaker. We'll see how it goes.

[Burningleaves]

To the OP.....Have you tried an EQ pedal yet? They can go a long way to shaping the tones(imo). Might be worth throwing one in the FX-loop if you have one available.

[DRPool]

 

What's WGS?

 

 

Warehouse Guitar Speakers

[Electric Blues]

EB, I'm glad this worked out for you but if it were me there's no way I'd go hacking on my amp to swap speakers. I have swapped the original out of my 112e cab but no real effort was involved there. Again, it's only me but there are a ton of speakers that should work great in the C30 that don't require tools and cutting. Check out the WGS stuff, good reviews around here, prices are decent and they fit.

 

Any speaker change in the C30 will requiere tools but of course everything goes back together as was.

 

Sorry if I gave the impression that it has to be hacked in to. The only thing that I cut was the the grill that protects the tubes. I could have left it out but a few cuts with the dremel and it's perfect. It fits over the new speaker and protects my tubes. I can take pictures if anyone is interested in doing the same.

 

I even sprayed a little black paint on the grill before installing it again. It looks factory fresh.

[guitarman3001]

 

Mojo BV-30V

 

 

Tell me more about this one.

[Main Offender]

Believe me, I hate swapping stuff out. Like I said, I've had this issue with every tube amp I've owned. They're just too bright for me. I couldn't even play through the DRRI they have at the studio we rehearse at. It was overly bright to the point of being unplayable for me.

 

I hate to sound mean, but I don't think swapping the speaker out will help you. If every amp you've owned has been too trebly and ice-picky for you, I think you need to look at a few things besides a speaker swap. It's not going to get rid of your problem if the problem carries over to every amp.

 

1. Your EQ on the amp--mess around and try to make your tone sound really "bassy", and then go from there until it loses the mud and sounds good to you. The Peavey Classics have great out-of-the-box tone, just fool around a bit.

2. Getting an EQ pedal--might cut out the trebliness.

3. Looking at your volume and tone knobs--running them on 10 will get you really trebly in virtually all situations. Turn down a bit on each and fool around with your vol at 7, your tone at 5, etc, without changing EQ on the amp. I know for a fact the Classic will sound different when you twiddle your guitar knobs, because I have one.

 

Like I said, I hate to be mean, but if you can't find a tone you like in a DRRI or a Classic, then I might chalk that up to what signal you're putting in, not the gear. I believe that too many people jump to a "speaker swap" conclusion when they can't solve a tone issue. I think it should be the absolute last thing you look at. Why would so many amp companies put totally substandard speakers in their amps to be test-driven on the sales floor against their competition?

[Wyatt]

 

Cool. Looks like the silver bell might be the way to go for me. Any suggestions or ideas about the wattage rating?

 

 

I think a 50-watt should be fine. If going Ceramic, you could go higher, but I think you'll get the best compromise of warmth and compression on the AliNiCo if you stay around 50-watts.