Members hellion_213 Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm building a guitar, and am pretty sure it's unique and have been toying with the idea of copyrighting the shape. Only problem is I don't know how or how much it costs or even if it would be worth it. What do you all think, would you copyright a design? And how would you do it? Thanks! Gotta go for now. Check back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prages Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 You would trademark it, not copyright it. Other than that, I have nothing more to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benricci Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 You would trademark it, not copyright it. This. It's a very lengthy legal process, and extremely expensive to do. If you're a hobbyist, it's not worth your time, effort and lawyer fees. You also have to establish the trademark by use in the marketplace first. So unless you're going into production with this shape, it's not worth your effort to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MahaloVision Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 I occasionally hang with Industrial Designers, and the independent ones get to wrestle with this all the time. The short answer is that if you see enough market potential and associated revenues coming your way that it would pay for the services of an attorney, then go for it. Also, the burden is on you to enforce the copyright, so figure that into your budgets for time and money. Otherwise, don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 In the Gibson "lawsuit" ruling back in the day, wasn't it established that the only part of a guitar that could be trademarked was the headstock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newbuilder Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 Keep talkin guys. I need this information too. Last time I asked I got a ton of good info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prages Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 In the Gibson "lawsuit" ruling back in the day, wasn't it established that the only part of a guitar that could be trademarked was the headstock? I think Gibson was able to trademark the body's silhouette and control placement. That's why the only guitars you see with a body shaped exactly like a LP are the ones that aren't technically available for sale in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 OK, that would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benricci Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 In the Gibson "lawsuit" ruling back in the day, wasn't it established that the only part of a guitar that could be trademarked was the headstock? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 I think at the end of the day, the ruling that the judge has to make is whether there is some likihood that the average consumer would be confused/deceived as to what they were buying. I think this is what the Gibson/PRS case fell apart over for Gibson. Gibson was trying to wipe out competitirs making dual humbucker achtop guitar in America (I think Hamer might have had issues and maybe importer operations like Rondo would be affected) Personally I think they woulld have been better off going after the real copycats...Now they just look like bullies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 I think Gibson was able to trademark the body's silhouette and control placement. That's why the only guitars you see with a body shaped exactly like a LP are the ones that aren't technically available for sale in the US. It all depends on what the company enforces, and what it lets go. Ric has way more rights in its designs because it's been so strict with not letting anybody copy anything, no way, no how. I'm surprised they haven't sued Rondo over the Agile Harm or Schecter over the Stargazer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 No. Well, I guess that clears that up! Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GomezAddams1 Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 I believe you can patent aesthetic design elements. Billy Gibbons owns some patents on guitar and car design (Did you know he has a degree in art?) http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=(gibbons.INNM.+AND+guitar.TI.)&OS=in/gibbons+and+ttl/guitar&RS=(IN/gibbons+AND+TTL/guitar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 Well, if it's expensive, then it's definitely not for me! Thought it'd be cool though, to have a trademark something that was my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AzCat Posted May 2, 2009 Members Share Posted May 2, 2009 Briefly (or as briefly as possible): Copyright - Yes, you can copyright a guitar body / headstock design. To do so you file a copyright registration with the Library of Congress, provide whatever samples they want (for this sort of work probably a photograph), and pay a minimal fee (way Trademark: *ALL* substantive trademark rights accrue to the trademark owner by virtue of the use of the mark *IN COMMERCE*; that is to say you simply appropriate a mark by creating or choosing one not presently in use then using it in commerce. Trademark law can be a bit complicated as there are common law (unregistered) marks, marks registered with state governments, and marks registered with the the federal government (US Patent & Trademark Office) with each successive level potentially providing more protection. Registration with a state or the federal government may provide additional procedural advantages though the substantive rights accrue via use of the mark in commerce (and use in "interstate commerce" is a prerequisite to federal registration). Trademarks must exclude all functional features, for example if your body contains a cutaway that allows for easier access to higher frets that's a functional feature and that feature would not be eligible for trademark protection. On the downside federal registration with the USPTO requires an attorney to sign the documents which adds a bunch of expense. Design patent: A design patent is a patent issued by the USPTO to the designer of the "ornamental features of an article of manufacture". A guitar shape (the non-functional parts) would be a nice example of precisely what they mean. Costs quite a bit and though the USPTO will deal with non-attorneys on patent matters there's little hope of your successfully navigating the bureaucracy and meeting the requirements without professional help. Utility patent - If your design contains functional features that improve some aspect of the instrument itself in a new and heretofore unknown way you would attempt to secure a utility patent from the USPTO to protect those features. This is what people think of as "a patent" and procuring one is typically a relatively long and moderately expensive process. But if you've developed new functional features it's the only way to formally protect them. For the non-functional purely ornamental features you have a choice of attempting to secure rights under any or all of the copyright, trademark and / or patent law regimes. What you should do depends on your budget, the liklihood of your design being successful in the marketplace, and the particular sort of legal protection you desire. Definitely check out the US Copyright Office web site: http://www.copyright.gov/ and the US Patent & Trademark Office web site: http://www.uspto.gov/ There's a lot of great information on both of those sites and while you won't come away with anything like a complete knowledge of the law they'll really help sort out basic questions like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2009 Thanks a TON dude! That was extremely helpful, and insightful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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