Members danosongs Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 After doing this for 20 years, and reading this board for a while, I have come up with starter list for music business rules to success. I am very serious about these even though it may seem extreme. Success requires extreme action in the music business. 1. Stay out of bands. 99% of bands I have been in and my friends have been in break up. Months and years of brand and following building go down the drain. Most all bands do not get along. Go solo and hire when needed. If you are a support musician on any instrument who can't sing or write then play for hire for a already successful singer songwriter. Be the leader, or be the gun for hire. 2. Stay out of bars and forget they exist. They are depressing, unhealthy, bad for your mood and can subconsciously be the biggest thing holding you back. They make you play for nothing (or worse yet, make you pay) and to no one. Playing bars, unless you are a really great cover band, is a losing game. Learn to get REAL gigs that build a fanbase by giving you exposure - colleges, art galleries, chamber of commerce, libraries, nursing homes (depends on the act of course), etc. etc. Just not bars. 3. USE DIRECT MAIL POSTCARDS. Just say hey, this is what my band is about, can I send you a demo? This is how you get the good jobs. Create a database of all the venues in your area in the list in rule #2. I have gotten gigs, call backs from record labels, visits from major publishers, press coverage so much more doing this. DO NOT send press kits or CDs unless asked via your initial postcard. DO NOT visit unless asked. This will save you hours and hours of heartache, travel and headaches. ** UPDATE: For you naysayers on postcards, I learned this from none other than Derek, the owner of CD Baby here: How to get into the college market in 4 steps Also, this works with record labels, publishers, music supervisors for film work, etc. Unfortunately I have nothing to show for the luck I have had with this technique because of not following rule #1! 4. Do not even think about a career back up plan. In my experience, in the music business if you have a back up plan you will take it. After reading tons of interviews with the very top successful artists the common theme is that they simply had NO other options. Music was all they knew, and all they could do. Don't go to music school, don't get a law degree thinking you can be a music business lawyer, don't do ANYTHING but music. If you need a day job it should be working in a cover band. ** UPDATE after reading all the posts about backup plans I still believe that getting a degree in music business was a precious 6 years of my life wasted. If you want to play music, just play music. Dive in and never look back. But I was 20 so I listened to everyone else. I am hoping people can add to the rules, so who is next?...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 Make sure you act humble and kiss those music industry VIP's asses! John
Members sabriel9v Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 FAIL +1,000 To the Op, are these the golden rules for failure?
Members richardmac Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I don't think you can put up controversial statements here, in a FORUM, and then say not to make it a "forum for argument." If your ideas can't stand some scrutiny, then they're not good ideas. I also don't think you can request that people leave your ideas alone, especially when they could be harmful. As it stands, I disagree on every point. 1. Play in at least one band to gain the experience. Don't count on it being your career. 2. Play venues that your style of music will succeed in. Might be bars, coffee houses, whatever. Know thyself and don't book yourself into a venue that's a bad match for you. 3. Call businesses where you want to play, or better yet, swing by in person. In person is better. Have a good press kit with references, and a nice demo with you. 4. Don't think you're going to make a living from music (other than retail/giving lessons/etc,) because the failure rate is extremely high. In NO business does it make sense to not have an alternative strategy, whether it's the music business or the restaurant business. Putting all your eggs in one basket isn't wise, it's stupid. If you can't consider a career outside of music, then at least get some marketable skills you can put to use WHEN you don't become a big superstar. Going to college for music means you can teach. Working in retail means you can work your way up, to a point, until you get beat out by the guy who DID go to college. And the most important rule: 5. Music is art. It is about creating something. Don't lose sight of that in your haste to "make it big," which you won't. Enjoy music. That's the most important thing. If you don't enjoy it, do something else.
Members Dessalines Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I don't think you can put up controversial statements here, in a FORUM, and then say not to make it a "forum for argument." If your ideas can't stand some scrutiny, then they're not good ideas. I also don't think you can request that people leave your ideas alone, especially when they could be harmful. As it stands, I disagree on every point. 1. Play in at least one band to gain the experience. Don't count on it being your career. 2. Play venues that your style of music will succeed in. Might be bars, coffee houses, whatever. Know thyself and don't book yourself into a venue that's a bad match for you. 3. Call businesses where you want to play, or better yet, swing by in person. In person is better. Have a good press kit with references, and a nice demo with you. 4. Don't think you're going to make a living from music (other than retail/giving lessons/etc,) because the failure rate is extremely high. In NO business does it make sense to not have an alternative strategy, whether it's the music business or the restaurant business. Putting all your eggs in one basket isn't wise, it's stupid. If you can't consider a career outside of music, then at least get some marketable skills you can put to use WHEN you don't become a big superstar. Going to college for music means you can teach. Working in retail means you can work your way up, to a point, until you get beat out by the guy who DID go to college. And the most important rule: 5. Music is art. It is about creating something. Don't lose sight of that in your haste to "make it big," which you won't. Enjoy music. That's the most important thing. If you don't enjoy it, do something else.
Members jaxn slim Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I think he does make a good point about the direct mail post cards. It's a pretty quick and inexpensive way to reach out to a lot people. Sure, most will just through them away. But some will take notice. I don't really agree with any of the other points, though.
Members sabriel9v Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I think he does make a good point about the direct mail post cards. It's a pretty quick and inexpensive way to reach out to a lot people. Sure, most will just through them away. But some will take notice. I don't really agree with any of the other points, though. We have myspace bulletins and facebook updates for those types of things now jaxn...best part, they're free
Members BlueStrat Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 We have myspace bulletins and facebook updates for those types of things now jaxn...best part, they're free I used to have hard copy mailing lists I sent out to about 270 people every month...it got expensive! But more importantly, when I stopped sending them out it made not a bit of difference in crowd attendance.
Members guywithaguitar Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 sounds lame....care to tell us how sucessful you are living and working by these rules?
Members jaxn slim Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 We have myspace bulletins and facebook updates for those types of things now jaxn...best part, they're free Yeah. But his point was to use them to contact new venues. A bulletin or update wouldn't help much with that. And many venues aren't that great at communicating on the interwebz.
Members Songwriter81 Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 Hmmm, I'll give it a try. 1) You will need to learn to write songs that have lyrical hooks, and write lyrics that are not noticeably bad. This is completely a learned skill. You could probably learn it in two to three years from reading books; analyzing your favorite songs; and playing other people’s material 2) You will need to learn how to sing in a way that sounds authentic. Not good, just authentic. Until you sing, you have very little control over your own career. 3) From a career perspective, it only makes sense to be a solo artist, who deals with other musicians on a professional—albeit courteous—basis. Trying to “make it” in a band with your buddies is like trying to start up a law firm with your buddies on a whim. This is a business. Treat it as so. Hire professionals. 4) Guitar appeals to men. Piano appeals to women. Play both. It always amazes me that some of the crap piano-ballads women will like. It also amazes at some of the guitar-based crap men will listen to. Either way, don’t fight it. Make a buck off it. 5) The minute you want to start playing music outside of your home, you are an aspiring performer—not a songwriter. You’re now in the realm of showbiz. Don’t be shocked when people are shallow. 6) To a record label, selling 100 albums in SmallTown, Alabama is better than selling 50 albums in LA. The label puts its marketing team behind you. You sell records for them. The numbers are all that matter. If you can’t sell records, you are losing them money. They should, rightfully, dump you. 7) You have to dress and look the part. If you’re a woman, you can’t be overweight. If you’re a dude, you can’t dress like some slouch, who just bought $40 jeans from American Eagle. Again, you are a performer. 8) You will need money at first. You will also need business skills. You acquire both at a non-music dayjob. 9) If you have a fair amount of real world experience and understand how people think, then trust your gut on your own career. But in terms of technical aspects of the business, absorb information from others like a sponge. 10) Most responsibilities are on your shoulders. Did clubowner screw you? Okay, that's your problem. Nobody else cares. How do you correct it? 11) Become conversant in the law and contracts. 12) Where you live doesn't matter a great deal. It matters only in the sense that (a) you can find other musicians and (b) you have large market (i.e., surrounding cities) in the immediate area so you can tour. If I were picking a place to relocate to, I would look at the cost of living, the availability of musicians, and the number of surrounding cities. IME, only posers are interested in finding a city with a "scene." If you are selling albums on a national level, you will garner interest from the industry, regardless of where you live. 13) You're in this for yourself. A lawyer will screw with a straight face. A musician/manager/agent will screw you with a smile. Never forget that. 14) This scene is the most applicable analogy to the music industry I've ever seen: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AXTx4PcKI&feature=related
Members Poker99 Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I used to have hard copy mailing lists I sent out to about 270 people every month...it got expensive! But more importantly, when I stopped sending them out it made not a bit of difference in crowd attendance. lol People today are BOMBARDED WITH {censored} FROM EVERY ANGLE. I have a free web based mailing list and I will keep it at that.
Members jaxn slim Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 Hmmm, I'll give it a try. Good list.
Members BlueStrat Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 Hmmm, I'll give it a try. 1) You will need to learn to write songs that have lyrical hooks, and write lyrics that are not noticeably bad. This is completely a learned skill. You could probably learn it in two to three years from reading books; analyzing your favorite songs; and playing other people’s material 2) You will need to learn how to sing in a way that sounds authentic. Not good, just authentic. Until you sing, you have very little control over your own career. 3) From a career perspective, it only makes sense to be a solo artist, who deals with other musicians on a professional—albeit courteous—basis. Trying to “make it” in a band with your buddies is like trying to start up a law firm with your buddies on a whim. This is a business. Treat it as so. Hire professionals. 4) Guitar appeals to men. Piano appeals to women. Play both. It always amazes me that some of the crap piano-ballads women will like. It also amazes at some of the guitar-based crap men will listen to. Either way, don’t fight it. Make a buck off it. 5) The minute you want to start playing music outside of your home, you are an aspiring performer—not a songwriter. You’re now in the realm of showbiz. Don’t be shocked when people are shallow. 6) To a record label, selling 100 albums in SmallTown, Alabama is better than selling 50 albums in LA. The label puts its marketing team behind you. You sell records for them. The numbers are all that matter. If you can’t sell records, you are losing them money. They should, rightfully, dump you. 7) You have to dress and look the part. If you’re a woman, you can’t be overweight. If you’re a dude, you can’t dress like some slouch, who just bought $40 jeans from American Eagle. Again, you are a performer. 8) You will need money at first. You will also need business skills. You acquire both at a non-music dayjob. 9) If you have a fair amount of real world experience and understand how people think, then trust your gut on your own career. But in terms of technical aspects of the business, absorb information from others like a sponge. 10) Most responsibilities are on your shoulders. Did clubowner screw you? Okay, that's your problem. Nobody else cares. How do you correct it? 11) Become conversant in the law and contracts. 12) Where you live doesn't matter a great deal. It matters only in the sense that (a) you can find other musicians and (b) you have large market (i.e., surrounding cities) in the immediate area so you can tour. If I were picking a place to relocate to, I would look at the cost of living, the availability of musicians, and the number of surrounding cities. IME, only posers are interested in finding a city with a "scene." If you are selling albums on a national level, you will garner interest from the industry, regardless of where you live. 13) You're in this for yourself. A lawyer will screw with a straight face. A musician/manager/agent will screw you with a smile. Never forget that. 14) This scene is the most applicable analogy to the music industry I've ever seen: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AXTx4PcKI&feature=related This should be printed and taped to the mirror of every aspiring pro musician in the world so they can read it every day.
Members danosongs Posted July 31, 2008 Author Members Posted July 31, 2008 guywithaguitar - the point is that I would have been more succesful if I HAD stuck to these rules. I wish I had. Every other question I read on this board has something to do with: 1. Why do my bandmates not do what I want when I want 2. why can't I find high paying gigs 3. why do bars make me pay to play and 4 what should I do with me life if I don't become successful in the music business because I am getting old. The rules I came up with answer all those questions even though you may not agree. richardmac - "Don't think you're going to make a living from music" says it all to me. Thats why you diagree with me which is fine. And your right, I removed my comment about disagreement. This is the music "business", not music "hobby" forum right? Songwriter81 - you rock, right on. Sabriel9v - As far as the post card thing - the people who book real paying gigs, who sign bands, are they on your email list? Are they on myspace? Sorry but no. Trust me, real pros send out real mail and make real money, that I know for a fact. Does every person in Rick Ezra's record co A&R and publishing directory know who you are? Do you think you can contact them on facebook or email? Snail mail has been and will continue to be the only way to get in their face. Read all the old school music business books - they all say FIRST send a letter with SASE requesting permission to submit. Well, postcards just do it better and cheaper.
Moderators daddymack Posted July 31, 2008 Moderators Posted July 31, 2008 Songwriter, great post...I may 'stickie' it, with the rest of the positive ideas posted here as a guide to survival in the biz.Danosongs, I don't know you're background, but I have to disagree with most of what you posted. Sorry, a) first you said no bands, then you said how to promote a band? Bands are where you learn about group dynamics, about egos, about flakes... b)Postcards get shredded/tossed/ignored more tha nany othe junkmail at businesses; c) bars are where you learn to work a crowd, and d) less than 1/10 of 1% of musicians (or players) ever make even a meager living in the biz...no back up plan means a life over 40 working as a fry cook. (apologies to any over 40 fry cooks) Things I do suggest:Never think that you are destined for success in only music, be prepared to fail!Do not tell people how great you or your band is, let them tell you.Master your instrument, and be somewhat familiar with other instruments as well; guitarists (actually all musicians) should at least have a rudimentary understanding of keyboard basics.Don't just learn to play an instrument, learn music. The ability to express musical ideas, and comprehend others ideas, is crucial.Keep an open mind. Just because you hear a piece of music a certain way in your head, does not mean it is the only interpretation.
Members danosongs Posted July 31, 2008 Author Members Posted July 31, 2008 daddymack - reseponses... First you said no bands, then you said how to promote a band? Promote an "act" not a band and YOU should own or be the act. Tell me I'm wrong after your next 5 bands break up and everything you work for goes down the tubes. Postcards get shredded/tossed/ignored more tha nany othe junkmail at businesses I sent out a thousand postcards to major labels, got 20 requests for demos, and 4 visits to shows. No manager, no lawyer. Sorry, your wrong. Why didn't it work out? Because they liked the CD but didn't like my "band" - another one down the tubes! LOL bars are where you learn to work a crowd You can work a crowd in any venue and IMO bars are the worst venue ever. Cover acts excluded. less than 1/10 of 1% of musicians (or players) ever make even a meager living in the biz...no back up plan means a life over 40 working as a fry cook. (apologies to any over 40 fry cooks) Thats the attitude that every person in the 99% has LOL. Not that I have been any different - my own worst enemy. But every interview I've ever studied with the greats - Dylan, Springsteen, etc. They had NO options and so they kept going when their friends quit and raised families. Think about it - if you want to make music your life then you have to make music your life. You can't have it both ways.
Members richardmac Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 Songwriter81, Great list! I like the point about playing piano and guitar, because... well, because it's TRUE, at least in my experience. danosongs, I disagreed with your points because I didn't believe in them. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Music Business, I'm 43, and I've been around the block. I've also read all the same Bob Baker PDF files that you have. If a person wants to make a living as a musician, they've got to be enormously flexible. They've got to be willing to play in more than one band, to play music they don't necessarily like, to play where the pay is (which can include bars,) work retail and/or give lessons if necessary, do live sound for other bands, whatever will make money. There is NOTHING WRONG with that lifestyle, if that's the lifestyle you want. Maybe they end up writing a hit song, or maybe they end up in a band that "makes it." The odds are absolutely staggering against that happening. And if it doesn't happen, you have to be willing to say "I didn't reach my goals but it's OK" and enjoy the lifestyle you have. Again, that's fine for some people, but people need to understand that's what they're getting into. Actually, when push comes to shove, I can understand your points about bands and bars - I don't play in a band and I don't play in bars, because I see the negatives to both, and because music isn't my career. I hate smoke! I wouldn't rule out being in a band, but if I did, it would just be for fun. And the idea of mailing stuff out, well, I think it's an expensive route that would yield poor results, but heck, I might even be willing to try it, because I don't KNOW that it won't work, and it's not THAT expensive. The major point I disagree with is the career backup plan point. IMHO, you either choose to be a musician, understanding everything I just laid out as being the probable outcome for you, or you choose to grab a traditional career and treat music as a hobby. It's been a huge topic for debate on this BBS, as well as other places. Many threads devoted to it. Like you said, it's OK that we disagree on that point. Many people do.
Members Johnny-Boy Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I sent out a thousand postcards to major labels, got 20 requests for demos, and 4 visits to shows. No manager, no lawyer. Sorry, your wrong. Why didn't it work out? Because they liked the CD but didn't like my "band" - another one down the tubes! A major label liked my brother's CD. When they found out his age, they told him he was too old to start a 'rock' career. Down the tube. My brother was around 40 at the time. Advise: be prepared for deals going bad. Most the time they do. I've been told that labels sign dozens of acts at a time - but they only promote a very, very few of them. Keep one foot in reality. Best, John:cool:
Members richardmac Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 if you want to make music your life then you have to make music your life. You can't have it both ways. Which is why making music your life will not make sense to a lot of people. Implied in your approach is that if you do everything right and make the proper sacrifices, you will succeed. It's not true. The odds are extremely high that you will fail, UNLESS you do everything you can to make a buck, as I outlined in a previous post. More and more people who are musicians don't want to do that. Does your game plan include giving lessons, fixing instruments, working retail, etc? If it does, then I think it's good advice.
Members MartinC Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I wanted to become a really good musician, but I was never willing to starve for it. I do think that in some twisted way, it can work to your advantage in the music business if you have nothing to fall back on, and nothing to lose. But I also believe that many people who take this approach will starve and fall back on their ass.
Members sabriel9v Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 Sabriel9v - As far as the post card thing - the people who book real paying gigs, who sign bands, are they on your email list? Are they on myspace? Sorry but no. Trust me, real pros send out real mail and make real money, that I know for a fact. Does every person in Rick Ezra's record co A&R and publishing directory know who you are? Do you think you can contact them on facebook or email? Snail mail has been and will continue to be the only way to get in their face. Read all the old school music business books - they all say FIRST send a letter with SASE requesting permission to submit. Well, postcards just do it better and cheaper. I disagree and I'm taking -20 off your comment The "real" professionals who make "real" money know how to utilize any and every outlet or resource to continue making money. That includes e-mail, snail mail, faxes, carrier pigeons, whatever.
Members BillyCorgan Posted July 31, 2008 Members Posted July 31, 2008 I'm actually doing great with original music and some friends of mine(Saving Abel) have the #2 rock song in the nation today. It's VERY possible if you can write a good hook and shop yourself to the right people. One of the main things you want to do is get a good booking agent and manager.Who cares if they take percentages out when they're making you plenty of money to live on? Another trick i've seen is if you know a good promoter, help them out with picking bands to bring to town. They might get you on the bill. Radio ads are also a must for those types of shows.
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