Members rog951 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hey you luthier types, I have a question for you! I bought an '80s Yamaha SBG2000 a couple years back and it's a GREAT guitar. I really love it but one little thing bugs me: there are two small diameter holes in the guitar's top. They're about the size of an LP's pickguard bracket screw hole, or smaller. From their positioning, sorta between the bridge and tailpiece, I'm guessing they might've been for a synth-p/u mounting? I was wondering if you guys knew of a good way to fill the holes and leave them looking a little less obvious? I don't expect a perfect match, just would like to fill them flush and maybe touch-up the areas a bit. The only thing is I don't want to risk make it look worse! BTW, the guitar has an opague black finish...not sure if Yamaha was using poly or nitro back then, but it looks like poly to me. I was considering dripping enough thinned super-glue into the holes to bring them a little more than flush with the top, letting it dry and then fine-sanding/polishing it back to flush. Would this work okay? I've never used super glue on a finished part of the guitar before. Didn't wanta try this 'til I gathered some opinions from you guys. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike42 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I had an identical situation a few years ago on a Godin LG - except this was trans red - black should be much easier to do. I ended up just using some wood filler which I tried to stain close to the red, and then just put a small drop of poly on it after it dried, and then "sanded" lightly. You will probably need to take off any rough edges on the holes before you fill them. Since you're doing black, I would probably use some Rustoleum, or similar black enamel that looked like a good gloss match for the finish. I would also suggest that is a case where "less is more". You're probably better off doing too little, rather than overfilling and having to knock the fills back down. You also need the fills to be a little lower than the surface to allow the paint to "pool" over the fills. This is a place where you probably want to use a toothpick or something similar as your paintbrush - just carry a small drop of paint to the fill and let it settle down by itself - you may have to thin the paint a little to get it to flow out by itself - test before you do the guitar. My results weren't perfect, but much better than bare holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harold heckuba Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 This is an amazing fix that works, dont know why and cant tell you the science behind it-BUT, for small holes you can fill the hole with baking soda and then add a drop of superglue on top. It has a chemical reaction of some sort and dries rock hard and completely flat so it wont need any or very little sanding. Add a tiny drop of color to the top of the repair and its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I usually fill holes to small for plugs with some paint. Nail polish works pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dabbler Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I usually fill holes to small for plugs with some paint. Nail polish works pretty good. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you WANTED to plug the holes the OP described, some round toothpicks could be made to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2009 Thanks guys! Mike42: most wood filler I've seen has been pretty thick in texture...how do you make sure you get the hole completely filled? I'd imagine if the hole wasn't full, it might settle over time and leave a little "seam" in the touch-up area on the top? I guess the reason I was thinking about super-glue is that it's so thin and capilliary action would ensure the entire hole gets full. HH: baking soda? Hahaha, I laughed at first but after I thought about it I remember hearing about people using that mixture to repair over-cut nut slots and how it makes a very durable surface for the string to rest on. Might be worth a shot. Burningleaves: so you just drop the paint directly into the hole? Do you use a toothpick to apply it? I guess I sorta have the same concerns as with wood filler about the paint being too viscous to fill the hole, but I'm intrigued about this approach: one easy step and I know I can sand/polish the paint with no worries. I'm slightly concerned about getting super glue near the top, even though I've been told over and over it's no problem. I'd prefer to just use paint if I could get it to work. dabbler: these holes are so small that I don't believe even a small round toothpick would fit. And since they're just cosmetic in nature, I shouldn't really need any structural reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 4, 2009 Members Share Posted July 4, 2009 Basically it is a combination of dropping it in and working it in. I put a little on a toothpick, pin, needle ,etc...something thin enough that I can put in the hole if needed to break surface tension and such. Doing it in stages is a good idea because the paint will tend to sink into the hole. Of course you let the paint dry between stages but it's nail polish so it does not take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalheadUK Posted July 4, 2009 Members Share Posted July 4, 2009 Get a black wax crayon...rub it over the holes until they fill with wax, wipe/scrape excess off with a cloth. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HanSolo Posted July 5, 2009 Members Share Posted July 5, 2009 I have done a few of these. I Pack a tooth pick in the hole by pushing it in, breaking it off and then tapping it down with a center punch to just below the surface. Thin down some black lacquer with laquer thinner and fill the hole just dropping the laquer in with the small brush until it is slightly overfilled. It may take a couple fills to get it to where it just puddles slightly above the surface because the fill contracts as the thinner evaporates. Once overfilled and dried, scrape it flush with a single-edge razor blade. I wrap both ends of the blade with 1 turn of scotch tape so that I don't mar the top as I scrape. Once I have it near flush, I wet sand with 800 grit follow by 1000 and then buff with polishing compound. The lacquer blends fine with both lacquer and polyurethanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 Okay guys. As with anything I ever attempt, this turned into a comedy of {censored}-ups. I went with the "fill the entire hole with nail polish" method. Here are my tips so far: Thanks to everyone for their advice...I'll get some pix once I've sanded it all down and polished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike42 Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 ^^^Well, I guess this really isn't funny, but I got a good laugh from your post. We've all been there in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 ^^^ Well, I guess this really isn't funny, but I got a good laugh from your post. We've all been there in one way or another. Don't feel bad, it's somehow cathartic to laugh at the pain of others! Believe me, there were times last night when I was laughing uncontrollably because of the shear number of things that went wrong. This is definitely one of those "simple" projects that I took too lightly and got bitten by it. I didn't even mention the stray guitar string that, though it could've gone in any direction when dropped, decided to somehow rake itself across one of the holes filled with paint, dragging a little trail of paint all the way across the guitar's top. Can you believe that shit? I was able to wipe it off but I'll still have to buff out the little smudge it created. Anyway, when I went down to check on the guitar after posting earlier, it turns out the paint had "sucked in" a little, so I needed to put another drop in each hole. I'm hoping when I get home tonight, I'll be ready to get to sanding. Wish me luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burningleaves Posted July 10, 2009 Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 You can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 You can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harold heckuba Posted July 11, 2009 Members Share Posted July 11, 2009 Forgot to mention that Dan Erlewine uses the baking soda method. He even dyes his baking soda first so there is no touch up at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well shit. The nail polish I was using never hardened. The brand was Sally Hanson's Lacquer Shine. WTF? So, I dug it all out and re-filled BOTH holes with wood putty, slightly sub flush. I'm going to go to Pep Boys tomorrow and buy a thingie of the blackest Dupli-Color car paint I can find. I know that shit will harden! This guitar thinks it can fuck with me...it may have won the battle, but I WILL win the war!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike42 Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 You go rog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aschreiber2010 Posted July 13, 2009 Members Share Posted July 13, 2009 However, I'd be willing to bet that if you WANTED to plug the holes the OP described, some round toothpicks could be made to work. this is what i've always done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2009 Okay, another futility update: I got the touch-up paint as planned, put a drop or two in each hole and waited 24 hours. Praise Jebus IT DRIED! But, it had "sucked in" a little so I put another drop on each and waited again. Same result. Another drop...same result. So now I'm thinking this stuff is somehow leeching out the back too, like my nail polish did. "One more try" I told myself, "and then I'm gonna burn this muthafuckah down!" Well, it turned out that one more drop was enough. Phew. I ended up with a nice little meniscus of dried paint at both former hole locations, and the color looked to be a pretty close match. SWEET! Now to sand it... Well, now I can't find my 620 grit wet-sand paper. I KNOW it's here from the last time I did something like this, but I can't find it anywhere. I REFUSE to spend another $5 on sandpaper when I'm 100% CERTAIN I've got it here already! So, I figure it'll turn up and I'm in no hurry. Fast forward a couple weeks, house turned dupside-down and still no sandpaper. I've got a free weekend coming up too so I make the drive of shame to Home Depot. Get home and start sanding. Four hours and ten massive hand/elbow cramps later I've got it all nice and flush, if a bit hazy. Looks great though...can barely make out the little circular outlines where the holes use to be. This is gonna look great! Just gotta polish out the haze...easy, right? Well, my hands are destroyed from hours of sanding, so the thought of more hand-polishing made me angry. I decided to break out some guitar polish and the Dremel tool, with its little polishing wheel that works so well for shining up rusty screw-heads, etc. I'll go with light pressure and slow speed...what's the worst that can happen? No, I didn't polish through the finish...I know that's what you were thinking. What happened was this: the low speed was not really doing much so I slowly started cranking up the rpms and it started working better. Cool! At some point I sensed that the finish was heating up a little if I stayed put with the wheel for more than a second or two. Not too hot at all, really, but "better back it off" I thought to myself. Unfortunately, during the interval between that thought entering my mind and the synapses firing to spur my hand to action, the filler paint, or the wood putty, or both, apparently melted and the wheel sorta grabbed the goop and pulled some out of the hole. DAMNIT!!!! Lesson learned: melting temp of the paint/filler concotion is significantly lower than that of the existing guitar finish. Don't have the patience right now to attempt another drop fill/sand/polish iteration, but, when I do, I'll go in knowing a little more about what NOT to do. Silver lining: the one hole that I didn't screw up looks great! Oh, and did I mention that I found the old fucking sandpaper when I was putting the Dremel tool away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 23miles Posted July 27, 2009 Members Share Posted July 27, 2009 I bought a Casino used some time ago and the original owner had removed the pickguard. Rather than leave the holes empty, ue got a couple of snap-top screw covers, put the screws back in and closed the covers - very elegant solution, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2009 I bought a Casino used some time ago and the original owner had removed the pickguard. Rather than leave the holes empty, ue got a couple of snap-top screw covers, put the screws back in and closed the covers - very elegant solution, I thought. You mean like these things? If so, yeah, that's a pretty good idea. I don't think it'd work out in my application though, due to the screw being so close to one of the pickup mounting rings. Do you have any pics of yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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