Is it good to have a back up plan?

[gtrbass]

I know a guy who is over 40, drives a hand-me-down 1990 Honda, lives in a crappy apartment in LA and works part time at a coffee shop. He's a kick ass guitar player (Tommy Tedesco level player) and even has a degree in marketing that he doesn't use. He lives hand to mouth most of the time. He's barely surviving but happy as a pig in sh*t!!!

 

To each his own. I don't wish to live that way. I'm happy too.

 

The only thing that bugs me when I read threads like this (which come up fairly often) is that its viewed as a 'noble cause' to starve for your pursuit of artistic fullfillment. "Hey man, you're setting yourself up for failure if you choose to have a backup plan." I call bullsh*t on that. If that's what you choose, go for it. It's your life.

 

I also think its a part of why the music business sucks. There are too many people chasing the dragon, willing to drop trou and bend over because they love making music. "we're gonna burn the ships, and there's no backing out so we will be successful." Isn't there enough information out there to bring home the reality that the music business has systematically exploited this notion for decades?

 

I remember seeing a cartoon of what the world would be like if we all got to be what we dreamt of when we were kids. It was filled with astronauts, cowboys, race car drivers, rockstars, movie stars, and the like. Well, somebody's got to build stuff, make stuff, grow the food, move stuff around, keep the lights on, etc. Is that so horrible??? It may not be glamorous, but having talent in these areas is what makes the world function. Having a mind numbing job is only a matter of perception. You CAN do both.

 

A few years ago I had a guy I was playing with tell me how 'noble' his desire to make it was and why I should consider leaving my career in favor of his plans. I responded by asking which is more noble? Making music and entertaining people, or supporting surgery at UCLA Medical Center? (Where I worked at the time.) He didn't have a compelling answer.

 

Music is easy...Life is hard

[germs]

Granted, your points are logical...

 

But there WILL come a time in one's career (if you're good enough) where you have to make a decision to either legitimately take the risk and step up to the next level, or keep on keepin on. Some people take the risk, some don't.

 

It's okay either way, just don't be too quick to ostracize those that have taken it. I mean, that's why you're here, isn't it? To sympathize and to commune with all your brothers-in-arms?

[BlueStrat]

 

Granted, your points are logical... But there WILL come a time in one's career (if you're good enough) where you have to make a decision to either legitimately take the risk and step up to the next level, or keep on keepin on. Some people take the risk, some don't. It's okay either way, just don't be too quick to ostracize those that have taken it. I mean, that's why you're here, isn't it? To sympathize and to commune with all your brothers-in-arms?

 

 

I took the risk, arranging my life so that I could drop everything at a moment's notice and take off down the road. I avoided good jobs and high paying career paths because I didn't want to be 'tied down'. And looking back at it, honestly, it's like quitting your job because you just know you're going to win the lottery. Now I'm 53 still wearing a set of nail bags. And ironically, I'm more tied down that ever, because I'm living paycheck to paycheck with no retirement and no possibility of ever retiring. I'm at the lower end of the earning scale for guys my age. I've had one knee replaced, I'll need the other one done soon, and in 10 years I'll have to have the first one re-done. That's if I don't get cancer (three of my friends my age have had it or have it now), or some other weird ailment that gets more likely the older I get.

 

When you're young and chasing the dream, you never ever stop to think about what happens if you don't make it, because not making it is not even a consideration, let alone an option. You don't think your body's ever going to fall apart, that you might have kids who need help with college, that you might have any number of emergencies or events occur that are going to demand your full attention and all your resources. Nope, all your energy goes into into keeping the dream alive, just for that three hour rush every week of playing music, and finding that self validation that comes in the form of the Sally Fields moment: "They like me, they really, really LIKE me!"

 

And one day you wake up and realize that you're pushing 50 and no one except folks more or less your age want to watch you play, and they don't go out much anymore. When you play out, 20 somethings look at you like you have three heads right before they get up en masse to go somehwere else. Venues are harder to come by, because there are so many bands of younger guys who bring friends out in force. All your friends are becoming grandparents and have other things to do. That's when you realize that the cruel mistress you gave up everything for is really a fickle slut.

 

I know it sounds otherwise, but I'm not bitter about it. I came to terms with it a few years ago. I made my choices, and I'm prepared to live with them. I'm more embarrassed that someone as ostensibly intelligent as I am with other things didn't see it. But I would tell anyone who enters the music biz without a backup plan that you're out of your mind, and need to get psychiatric help, and fast.

[chimneybike]

I have a similar problem. My problem is I'm enrolled in an Architecture degree which leaves very little time for anything else in life. Trying to find something else to study (which I have an interest in) is proving more difficult than I thought.

[eca]

I think Bluestrat's post pretty much answers all those hesitations. I couldn't agree with you more. In the music biz you can never know. Plus I say- always have a backup plan. and go to school, and college. education is important. you have your whole life to play, and to grow and develop yourself as a musician. I know everybody's saying you can get your education later on, but it's not true, or at least not as near as easy. what's 3-4 years of studying in a lifetime perspective? it'll give you a backup plan, and it will open your horizons. Music is creation, and creation gets better if your mind is open.

and about that architecture degree- you know it's ok to have 2 things you're passionate about... you'll find a way to do both of them if you'll try hard enough. Now if you're not so passionate about architecture- I think you should consider changing your major into something else that interests you.

[chimneybike]

I'm passionate about film, tv, photography and music. Not really architecture and that's my problem. I'm doing architecture in hopes of getting a job. The pay is going to be pretty average (when compared to other professional degrees).

 

It is a really demanding major. You'll rarely see architecture students socializing with other majors on campus or out partying on weekends. This really gets to me. But I am looking at other majors as we speak for next semester. It's hard because I am attracted to all these creative things but I know I should go to school for something that's more likely to get me a job.

 

We don't really have good art schools like the US here so there is no point me really majoring in film or something like that anyway.

[fuzzball]

 

I took the risk, arranging my life so that I could drop everything at a moment's notice and take off down the road. I avoided good jobs and high paying career paths because I didn't want to be 'tied down'. And looking back at it, honestly, it's like quitting your job because you just know you're going to win the lottery. Now I'm 53 still wearing a set of nail bags. And ironically, I'm more tied down that ever, because I'm living paycheck to paycheck with no retirement and no possibility of ever retiring. I'm at the lower end of the earning scale for guys my age. I've had one knee replaced, I'll need the other one done soon, and in 10 years I'll have to have the first one re-done. That's if I don't get cancer (three of my friends my age have had it or have it now), or some other weird ailment that gets more likely the older I get. When you're young and chasing the dream, you never ever stop to think about what happens if you don't make it, because not making it is not even a consideration, let alone an option. You don't think your body's ever going to fall apart, that you might have kids who need help with college, that you might have any number of emergencies or events occur that are going to demand your full attention and all your resources. Nope, all your energy goes into into keeping the dream alive, just for that three hour rush every week of playing music, and finding that self validation that comes in the form of the Sally Fields moment: "They like me, they really, really LIKE me!" And one day you wake up and realize that you're pushing 50 and no one except folks more or less your age want to watch you play, and they don't go out much anymore. When you play out, 20 somethings look at you like you have three heads right before they get up en masse to go somehwere else. Venues are harder to come by, because there are so many bands of younger guys who bring friends out in force. All your friends are becoming grandparents and have other things to do. That's when you realize that the cruel mistress you gave up everything for is really a fickle slut. I know it sounds otherwise, but I'm not bitter about it. I came to terms with it a few years ago. I made my choices, and I'm prepared to live with them. I'm more embarrassed that someone as ostensibly intelligent as I am with other things didn't see it. But I would tell anyone who enters the music biz without a backup plan that you're out of your mind, and need to get psychiatric help, and fast.

 

 

 

I agree remember the most sucessful business usualy have contingincy plans in case something does not work out as planned. Hope for the best and plan for the best, average, and the worst.

[fuzzball]

I'm passionate about film, tv, photography and music. Not really architecture and that's my problem. I'm doing architecture in hopes of getting a job. The pay is going to be pretty average (when compared to other professional degrees). It is a really demanding major. You'll rarely see architecture students socializing with other majors on campus or out partying on weekends. This really gets to me. But I am looking at other majors as we speak for next semester. It's hard because I am attracted to all these creative things but I know I should go to school for something that's more likely to get me a job. We don't really have good art schools like the US here so there is no point me really majoring in film or something like that anyway.

 

Not to sound mean, but consider moving? Consider online schooling?

Just because people in architecture dont socialize much in your area does that mean the job stinks? Also if you are good you can make a larger than average income in architecture, I think you need to look around and do a little more research about the field, then consider other paths that may seem more interesting to you. It seems that you are at a time where you are not sure what to do...don't feel bad that is common. The average person changes careers 7 times.

[germs]

BlueStrat: I would like to thank you for your continued sharing of wisdom and experience. However, this being the internet, and thus being an endless resource of deception, I'm forced to assume that you're telling the truth...but no worries, I have no reason to doubt your story.

 

I would like to add that today's young(ish) people are somewhat more informed about financial planning, and have many more options available to them than the simple CD's or IRA's. Even if you don't work for a large corporation as an adult, there are many independent financial planning companies available to help you prepare for retirement. The key is to be able to take advantage of them. Still, some refuse to (or simply can't afford to) think about "the future" and retirement.

 

I think the musician's stigma is similar to the innercity black child's dream to be a basketball star, as a vehicle to escape their reality - or at least, to cope with it. I could draw a further parallel, and say that there are many fantastic basketball players around NYC, Chicago, LA and the like, playing on concrete courts (for money!) - kind of like the way we go out on stage. Some are able to make a living at it, without officially going "pro", some just do it for the love of the game - and if there's money left at the end of it all for beer, then so much the better.

 

The point is, these people too have pinned an entire life's worth of hopes and dreams on a simple gamble. It's simply not worth it. I myself have learned a trade, a good one, that allows me to be free on the weekends and weeknights to go out and play pretty much when and where I want. Am I a millionaire? Of course not, but I'm happy to be able to do it.

 

I only hope that you don't regret your life's work when it's all said and done. It's not about the destination, after all...

[fuzzball]

Germs,

Great points, hoping for the best and not having any backup plan just does not make sense it is a bit like practicing on a high wire without a net.

 

Sure we can have dreams but we must also be wise.

 

On another note "I would like to add that today's young(ish) people are somewhat more informed about financial planning, and have many more options available to them than the simple CD's or IRA's. "

 

I have to disagree, I teach college students and adult seminars on this all of the time and I can say that people still don't seem more informed on their options (at least not in my area). They have more options than ever but they have never been taught what they really are and how to use them.

[germs]

Oh, no doubt.

 

I mean, can you really explain to me in layman's terms how the stock market is considered a long-range, and therefore safe, investment?

 

No one can. The economic system is too bloated and complicated to begin with, and that's what turns a lot of people off to it in the first place.

[fuzzball]

That is part of the problem (the complexity), and there is no true 100% safe investment. With that in mind each person needs to determine how much risk they are willing to take.

 

I find that teaching the basics and then showing them how to apply common sense to the tools seems to help greatly.

[gtrbass]

Bleustrat said "it's like quitting your job because you just know you're going to win the lottery". That's a pretty good analogy. Fame is a "fickle slut" (Good one B.S.) Problem everyone thinks they're going to get to lay with her. Reality is only a few do and it's a devil's deal most of the time.

 

This being the internet and all, yes, anyone can say anything. I'm a straight shooter. So is Bluestrat and several others here who have been around the block and woke up to realize the emperor's naked. He's not gonna bullsh*t you. Neither am I.

 

I get a lot of guys in LA asking me how I did what I did. They assume I made a pile of money in the music business. I did ok... I made a pile of money elsewhere.

 

Here's the IMPORTANT Sh*t I learned

 

You've only got so many bullets. Use them wisely. Bring down a rabbit to eat so you don't starve to death waiting for a buffalo to run by. If you aren't sitting where the buffalo roam, don't expect to see one.

 

Business is business. The paradigms used to run an enterprise are the same whether its entertainment, retail, or even healthcare. The people at the lower end of the organizational structure don't have the vantage point to recognize the iceberg sitting out ahead.

 

Entrepreneurial traits and musical skills rarely go hand in hand. You need to wear many hats, be driven by opportunity and tend to think in terms of bootstrapping your ideas and goals.

 

Successful business people have emotional intelligence. That is counter to the way most musicians are wired. Artists are generally way too close to their creative output to be objective about its chances of success.

 

Risk avoidance & risk transfer is the name of the game. This what record labels and club owners have known for years and years.

 

I could go on and on ...

[BlueStrat]

 

BlueStrat: I would like to thank you for your continued sharing of wisdom and experience. However, this being the internet, and thus being an endless resource of deception, I'm forced to assume that you're telling the truth...but no worries, I have no reason to doubt your story.

 

 

You are wise to question everything on the internet and I take no offense that you do.

 

If I were going to make stuff up, though, it wouldn't be about how many bad decisions I've made. I'd be the biggest success story you ever saw here!

[Sleepin' Deeper]

Check it:

 

No back up: 8-12 hours of music a day, you'll improve "really fast", if you have the talent. You can spend all your energy making that good chorus into a hit chorus. You can spend countless hours polishing your craft and your skills which is great 'cos the competition is damn stiff.

 

With back-up: You'll spend 6-10 hours a day working/studying. You'll come home worn out, and maybe have the energy to spend 2-3 hours on music. If you're studying, exams and essays and whatnot will cut into your music time even more.

 

Take these two scenarios, add up the "time-spent-on-music" for the next 5 years, and the difference is HUGE!! Seriously, if you want to maximize your success-potential, you GOTTA give it your all and focus on the music. Maximum potential comes with maximum risk, so remember that. You CAN try and succeed with a back up plan goin' on the side, but it'll be A LOT harder, 'cos you're not maximizing your musical potential.

 

It's very simple. How many Donald Trump's are there who never took a huge risk?

[BlueStrat]

 

You can spend all your energy making that good chorus into a hit chorus.

And how, pray tell do you tell if you have a 'hit chorus'?

 

That's the catch-22 ot eh music biz: No one knows what a hit is until it's a hit. Even major labels with major marketing divisions are only right less than 20% of the time. You can devote your of the whole life to something and until you're a success, you have no way of knowing if what you're doing is going to make you successful. For every guy who 'makes it' and can look back and say, "well, shoot, I did X,Y and Z and it worked" , there are hundreds doing the same things for whom it will never work, no matter how much they may believe otherwise. It may be something very subtle, like the look is not quite right, the personality not quite there, the voice not quite what they're looking for, lack of "sparkle" or "pizazz" or any number of subjective terms, but nothing you can overcome with mere belief in yourself. Danny Gatton is a case in point: One of the best guitar players the world never heard of. Why did someone like SRV, a short ugly mediocre singer who could play guitar fairly well make it big, and Danny Gatton, a short, homely mediocre singer who was a monster on guitar not make it? Gatton believed in his talent ferociously, to the point that it consumed him and he took his own life at his inability to gain acceptance.

 

Word has it that Edsel Ford just loved the Edsel car one of the biggest styling flops in the history of the automobile. Test marketing showed it to be a disaster, but he insisted on producing it for a couple of years anyway, because gosh darn it, he believed in it. He almost bankrupted Ford in the process of finding that belief in and of itself cannot overcome the subjective whims of the buying public.

 

Oh, and about Donald Trump: he made a fortune off of other people's money, not his own. If you can get someone to subsidize your failure until you succeed, then by all means, don't have a backup plan. If not, you might want to reconsider.

[germs]

 

You are wise to question everything on the internet and I take no offense that you do. If I were going to make stuff up, though, it wouldn't be about how many bad decisions I've made. I'd be the biggest success story you ever saw here!

 

 

LOL. So true...

[fuzzball]

 

Check it: No back up: 8-12 hours of music a day, you'll improve "really fast", if you have the talent. You can spend all your energy making that good chorus into a hit chorus. You can spend countless hours polishing your craft and your skills which is great 'cos the competition is damn stiff. With back-up: You'll spend 6-10 hours a day working/studying. You'll come home worn out, and maybe have the energy to spend 2-3 hours on music. If you're studying, exams and essays and whatnot will cut into your music time even more. Take these two scenarios, add up the "time-spent-on-music" for the next 5 years, and the difference is HUGE!! Seriously, if you want to maximize your success-potential, you GOTTA give it your all and focus on the music. Maximum potential comes with maximum risk, so remember that. You CAN try and succeed with a back up plan goin' on the side, but it'll be A LOT harder, 'cos you're not maximizing your musical potential. It's very simple. How many Donald Trump's are there who never took a huge risk?

 

 

You can spend all of your money on the lotto to...it does not mean you will win. Then if you wake up 30 years later with a crap job that you hate, no money, and no retirement you may change your mind and wish you had a backup plan.

 

Now with that in mind I worked, studied, earned several degrees, make a good living, and here it is make money with music! I have been offered a decent record deal and used my skills and education to deduct that I may be able to make more independantly. I do not regret a thing, I made music my passion and used my education with it. Remember the music industry is business.

[eca]

 

I'm passionate about film, tv, photography and music. Not really architecture and that's my problem. I'm doing architecture in hopes of getting a job. The pay is going to be pretty average (when compared to other professional degrees). It is a really demanding major. You'll rarely see architecture students socializing with other majors on campus or out partying on weekends. This really gets to me. But I am looking at other majors as we speak for next semester. It's hard because I am attracted to all these creative things but I know I should go to school for something that's more likely to get me a job. We don't really have good art schools like the US here so there is no point me really majoring in film or something like that anyway.

 

 

You should also think about what happens after school. I'm sure this major is really demanding, but architecture always seemed to me like a creative job. I don't know where you're from, but i'm guessing that if they don't have good "art schools", maybe it will not be as easy to get a job at that field. and then you'll be needing a backup plan to your backup plan... and that's not such a good idea. But I have a question for you- do you believe you could become a good architect?

[germanicus2112]

 

Check it: No back up: 8-12 hours of music a day, you'll improve "really fast", if you have the talent. You can spend all your energy making that good chorus into a hit chorus. You can spend countless hours polishing your craft and your skills which is great 'cos the competition is damn stiff. With back-up: You'll spend 6-10 hours a day working/studying. You'll come home worn out, and maybe have the energy to spend 2-3 hours on music. If you're studying, exams and essays and whatnot will cut into your music time even more. Take these two scenarios, add up the "time-spent-on-music" for the next 5 years, and the difference is HUGE!! Seriously, if you want to maximize your success-potential, you GOTTA give it your all and focus on the music. Maximum potential comes with maximum risk, so remember that. You CAN try and succeed with a back up plan goin' on the side, but it'll be A LOT harder, 'cos you're not maximizing your musical potential.

 

 

I think this is the point that Stu Hamm was making at a bass clinic I saw him give many years ago. The idea that backup plans tend to overwhelmingly absorb peoples time and efforts, and to be successful, from his vantage, required a constant effort and dedication to his craft, literally surrounding oneself as much as possible with different opportunities. The more time and effort you put into succeeding at something, the more likely you will.

 

The problem in this discussion is how does one define musical success? I guarantee that for each person involved in this thread, we have an equal number of interpretations of what constitutes musical success. For some it could be simply supporting themselves playing their chosen instrument, for others it could be touring on a National/International level, for others it could be composing music tv/film, for others being a rock star, and for others it could be just playing their own original music on a regular basis live.

 

For those who are chasing the rock star thing (as immensely difficult and unlikely it is) youth is a big part of it, and spending time on a backup plan, probably drastically decreases one's likelihood of success. For others, an independent income/livelihood could enable a greater degree of musical freedom in their future, especially compared to one who is dependent on giving lessons and living paycheck to paycheck, and making musical compromises (playing music they would rather not play just to get by).

[germanicus2112]

 

Gatton believed in his talent ferociously, to the point that it consumed him and he took his own life at his inability to gain acceptance. .

 

 

How do you know this? His suicide is not very understood, especially his reasons for it. I saw him at the Birchmere in Virginia weeks before his suicide, and he was very much in his element apparently enjoying himself. At the time this occured I heard he suffered from a bipolar condition, but cant verify the claim. Tragic loss.

[masterbuilt]

ECA, if your passion is photography, or one of your passions, anyway, by all means, drop the architecture and pursue the photography.

 

Let me just say that I am a photographer, publisher, and author of the subject, so, I am passionate about it. My latest book, however, is not about photography, it is about getting happy and staying that way. The thrust of this book is really finding your passion and cultivating that passion to become a success in that field.

 

If your passion is not architecture, you might as well chain yourself to an oar...

 

"We keep you alive to serve this ship, row well and live."

 

Remember that line, it is from Ben-Hur. If you are locked into a career that is not your passion, it will be as though you are "number forty-one" on some slave galley.

 

No, you don't want that. Grab your passion and run with it.

[fuzzball]

ECA, if your passion is photography, or one of your passions, anyway, by all means, drop the architecture and pursue the photography. Let me just say that I am a photographer, publisher, and author of the subject, so, I am passionate about it. My latest book, however, is not about photography, it is about getting happy and staying that way. The thrust of this book is really finding your passion and cultivating that passion to become a success in that field. If your passion is not architecture, you might as well chain yourself to an oar... "We keep you alive to serve this ship, row well and live." Remember that line, it is from Ben-Hur. If you are locked into a career that is not your passion, it will be as though you are "number forty-one" on some slave galley. No, you don't want that. Grab your passion and run with it.

 

Great advice, you need to find things that you have passion for (more than one). This will enable you to have a backup plan. For instance I love to play in my band and make money, but I knew it may not be enough to support myself and a family, so I found that I also enjoyed business and recording, so I learned about business (a continuous thing) and about recording. I now have a band that makes some money, a very small studio which I own and manage which makes some money, and a day job as the lead professor of the business and IT department for a college (which I also find fun, interesting, and challenging). I can use the experience about the importance of education and how it can help you chase and achieve your dreams. On top of all of that I am writing a book and enjoying time with my family. You are never tied down to one option, if you can find ways to link things you enjoy and embrace the good things that life has to offer.

[BlueStrat]

 

I think this is the point that Stu Hamm was making at a bass clinic I saw him give many years ago. The idea that backup plans tend to overwhelmingly absorb peoples time and efforts, and to be successful, from his vantage, required a constant effort and dedication to his craft, literally surrounding oneself as much as possible with different opportunities. The more time and effort you put into succeeding at something, the more likely you will.

I'm sure , from his vantage point, this is true. Of course, his vantage point is one of success. However, I'll reiterate: you can have 1000 other people do exactly the same things he did and not make it, much like you can have 1000 people in a law school receiving the same instruction, yet arrive at varying degrees of success on the Bar exam. Doing is only part of the equation. Only in music, there are a much larger number of variables and no centralized instruction in how to overcome them. There are things like personality, intelligence (how fast do you learn and retain?), looks, relationships, drive, and luck that have much to do with success. So while one can set out to achieve, and look back and say what he did worked, doesn't mean it will work for everyone, or even anyone else. And frankly, I think it's cruel to urge kids with marginal talent, little charm and limited abilities to just 'stick to it" and "not give up the dream", when most of them will never come close to making it. For every Mozart, there are 1000 Solieris. I'm all for giving it your best shot, but burning the ships behind you isn't a wise plan, since the odds are overwhelmingly against success in music.

 

[i'm defining success as the ability to earn a living equal to or better than the income one can derive from a degreed career, being able to pay a mortgage, support a family and provide for retirement]

 

 

How do you know this? His suicide is not very understood, especially his reasons for it.

Several years ago, maybe a year after he killed himself, I read an article that quoted a family member ( I want to say his sister, but I just don't recall) saying that he was profoundly disappointed at having achieved a certain level, garnering press and praise and a cult following, but not having it translate into larger income and more mainstream recognition. This, combined with turning 40 (he was 41 when he died, I believe), problems he was having with the IRS, etc pushed him over the edge. Whether it's true or not, who knows? I just take what his family members say at face value.

[eca]

ECA, if your passion is photography, or one of your passions, anyway, by all means, drop the architecture and pursue the photography. Let me just say that I am a photographer, publisher, and author of the subject, so, I am passionate about it. My latest book, however, is not about photography, it is about getting happy and staying that way. The thrust of this book is really finding your passion and cultivating that passion to become a success in that field. If your passion is not architecture, you might as well chain yourself to an oar... "We keep you alive to serve this ship, row well and live." Remember that line, it is from Ben-Hur. If you are locked into a career that is not your passion, it will be as though you are "number forty-one" on some slave galley. No, you don't want that. Grab your passion and run with it.

MASTERBUILT, thanks for your answer, I agree completely. It's not me that's interested (or not) at architecture, I was referring to a post made by Chimneybike...

I think that by all means, if you're lucky enough to be really passionate about something, you should go with it. I'm just saying- don't forget to be reasonable. and for that part- a backup plan is important.