Members orourke Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's not my favorite Allman Brothers tune but some guys asked me to learn this tune so I've been studying it quite a bit. I assume it's Dickie Betts on the non-slide part. He starts out on that plucky riff and his guitar has a nice close-to-breakup tone. But then he comes roaring in with that lead break and the guitar is howling. I wonder how he got that big boost back in the day. It's not as if they had channel switching or tube screamers back in 1971. Maybe an A/B box between two amps? You'd think if he was just turning up his guitar volume that the rhythm tone would have been muddier. Anyone know how they did it back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Beatles27 Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 IIRC the dickie or duane had fuzzboxes and/or a treble booster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 IIRC the dickie or duane had fuzzboxes and/or a treble boosterSure, nothing too fancy or secretive. Just a semi-dirty boost in front of an "at the edge" amp tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members go cat go Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Didn't he use the volume controls on Les Paul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pilon Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Wild turkey, junk, gold top.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Didn't he use the volume controls on Les Paul?well, sure, along with the tone knobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bryvincent Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Betts also uses JBL D120 speakers on his cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 As above.... Quote from somewhere: "Duane used a Fuzz Face distortion box, which he insisted to be used in conjunction with nearly flat 9V batteries. His justification for this was that the sound takes on a slightly creamier quality when the batteries are flat, while the amp can then be used to provide the main raunch and overdrive. " "As far as Marshall amps are concerned he tried 100W heads, but switched to 50W soon after as he could push them to heavier distortion at quieter volumes (remember that these amps didn't have distortion channels like modern amps, but required natural volume to push the valves to overdrive)- although quiet is still relative (i.e. loud). This is an interesting note when comparing his sound with that of fellow guitarist Dickey Betts, especially on the "at Fillmore East" album. Dickey used 100W (Marshall) heads, so the overdrive is still far cleaner when he played at the same volume as Duane. They both used half open modified Marshall 4x12 Cabinets, which were altered to use JBL-D120 speakers; these have a very different tone and character to the standard Celestion 25 watt speakers found on speaker cabs from that era. " Also Duane often used the pickup selector as a channel switch to get lead/rhythm volume changes, so maybe Dickie was doing the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C-4 Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's not my favorite Allman Brothers tune but some guys asked me to learn this tune so I've been studying it quite a bit.I assume it's Dickie Betts on the non-slide part. He starts out on that plucky riff and his guitar has a nice close-to-breakup tone. But then he comes roaring in with that lead break and the guitar is howling.I wonder how he got that big boost back in the day. It's not as if they had channel switching or tube screamers back in 1971. Maybe an A/B box between two amps? You'd think if he was just turning up his guitar volume that the rhythm tone would have been muddier.Anyone know how they did it back then? I saw the Allman Bros. Band twice within a 6 week period at our college back in 1971.I sat in the first row and saw the gear up close bot times.Both Allman and Betts were using Marshall heads. Duane used a 50 watt Superbass and Dickey used a 100 SLP. Both were using Marshall 4x12 stacks with JBL speakers and vintage LP Standards. No foot toys, no bull{censored}. Just straight into the amps and controlled the volume from the guitars.That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockNote Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Then there's the PU debate: http://www.wcrguitar.com/fillmore.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sbeirnes Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Dickie used the neck PU for his leads and the bridge PU for his rythm work. That way his leads are nice and creamy and his rythm work stays nice and defined when he uses the bridge PU with the volume rolled back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeanoBoy Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Sounds like Dickie has his pickup selector in the middle position with both pickups turned down for the main riff. When his solo comes around it sounds like he flicks the selector to his bridge pickup and turns it up. I agree, a GREAT tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 And the crying is from his fingers. I seen Dickey have that same character in his sound on a flattop, it's quite unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members go cat go Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 I saw the Allman Bros. Band twice within a 6 week period at our college back in 1971.I sat in the first row and saw the gear up close bot times.Both Allman and Betts were using Marshall heads. Duane used a 50 watt Superbass and Dickey used a 100 SLP. Both were using Marshall 4x12 stacks with JBL speakers and vintage LP Standards. No foot toys, no bull{censored}. Just straight into the amps and controlled the volume from the guitars.That is all. This is what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orourke Posted September 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Sounds like Dickie has his pickup selector in the middle position with both pickups turned down for the main riff. When his solo comes around it sounds like he flicks the selector to his bridge pickup and turns it up. I agree, a GREAT tone! Working the guitar volume knob seems like the most reasonable explanation. Another good example of this is Creedence Clearwater Revival at Woodstock. If you haven't seen the new cleaned Woodstock movie, it's practically worth the price just for those three songs. John Fogarty gets so many amazing sounds out of a Rickenbacker and and some SS Kustom Amps. Absolutely amazing tone. It's not that I'm trying to copy these guys approach. Personally I play with too many different people using different guitar volumes, to be able to have a consistant sound. To just get your dirt from an amp you have to have an amp that breaks up at just the right volume. It's easier for me to use pedals. But I still find these old performances very inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 "Duane used a Fuzz Face distortion box, which he insisted to be used in conjunction with nearly flat 9V batteries. His justification for this was that the sound takes on a slightly creamier quality when the batteries are flat, while the amp can then be used to provide the main raunch and overdrive. " Duane Allman: the original Eric Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockNote Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Well, by "PU debate" I meant the question of whether Duane's PU's where non-stock re-wound pups, as is claimed by Jim Wagner to whose site I refer above. What he offers is hand wound pups, not so much to Duane's "specs" (whatever they were) as to Duane's "effects" - if you get my meaning: Jim Wagner has nailed the tone without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Working the guitar volume knob seems like the most reasonable explanation. Another good example of this is Creedence Clearwater Revival at Woodstock. If you haven't seen the new cleaned Woodstock movie, it's practically worth the price just for those three songs. John Fogarty gets so many amazing sounds out of a Rickenbacker and and some SS Kustom Amps. Absolutely amazing tone.It's not that I'm trying to copy these guys approach. Personally I play with too many different people using different guitar volumes, to be able to have a consistant sound. To just get your dirt from an amp you have to have an amp that breaks up at just the right volume. It's easier for me to use pedals. But I still find these old performances very inspiring. there's a good post here on setting up the old way. http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/23112-how-did-classic-rock-players-like-jimmy-page-use-their-guitar-controls.html Surprising how much of difference you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orourke Posted September 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 there's a good post here on setting up the old way.http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/23112-how-did-classic-rock-players-like-jimmy-page-use-their-guitar-controls.htmlSurprising how much of difference you can get. Good info, thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members go cat go Posted September 22, 2009 Members Share Posted September 22, 2009 Wow - that's a seriously awesome link. There was a video of Joe Bossanova (sp?) playing straight into a tube amp. He was demonstrating all the different tones available on a LP by just using the vol and tone controls. I think he had the amp set to a mild crunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Beatles27 Posted September 23, 2009 Members Share Posted September 23, 2009 Duane Allman: the original Eric Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeanoBoy Posted September 23, 2009 Members Share Posted September 23, 2009 Good info, thanks for the link. I agree. Cool link! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members outtahear Posted September 23, 2009 Members Share Posted September 23, 2009 Well, by "PU debate" I meant the question of whether Duane's PU's where non-stock re-wound pups, as is claimed by Jim Wagner to whose site I refer above. What he offers is hand wound pups, not so much to Duane's "specs" (whatever they were) as to Duane's "effects" - if you get my meaning: Jim Wagner has nailed the tone without question. You mean Fillmores or the Bet Set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DunedinDoug Posted September 23, 2009 Members Share Posted September 23, 2009 I've always admired Dickie's playing and tone on that song. I have to wonder, though, why he switched to that piercing, too-trebly tone we hear on "Southbound". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockNote Posted September 23, 2009 Members Share Posted September 23, 2009 You mean Fillmores or the Bet Set? The link I gave is to Fillmore (which is what I meant). Why are you in doubt? Check it out and enjoy the duanesque tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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