High action = fatter tone?

[cephus]

Since you are arguing that it makes such a huge difference, can you listen to a guitar recording and correctly determine what gauge of string is being used and how high the action is? At a live concert, standing 30 feet from the stage, could you determine what gauge and action is being used?

 

 

Yes. That is why I am shocked that you think it doesn't make a difference. Style alone should be enough to determine whether the guitar is set up stiff or delicately.

 

I didn't grow up in the modeling era of sound production. I don't think a knob is going to make as much of a difference as the guy's attack or how he holds down the strings.

 

Look, maybe your heroes all play with 8s and you think they have kick-ass tone. I think it's very obvious that their tone comes from their amp and pedals and not from their hands. I prefer intimate transparent guitar. That means you have to rely on physics and not electronics.

 

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

[Bro Blue]

Yes. That is why I am shocked that you think it doesn't make a difference. Style alone should be enough to determine whether the guitar is set up stiff or delicately. I didn't grow up in the modeling era of sound production. I don't think a knob is going to make as much of a difference as the guy's attack or how he holds down the strings. Look, maybe your heroes all play with 8s and you think they have kick-ass tone. I think it's very obvious that their tone comes from their amp and pedals and not from their hands. I prefer intimate transparent guitar. That means you have to rely on physics and not electronics. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

 

 

That makes no sense at all since, unless you are playing an acoustic, you are also relying on an amp for part of your tone. If you plug into an amp with an EL84 power section you will sound different than if you use an amp with a 6L6 power section. Pickups, tubes, speakers, etc. play a much larger part in tone than string gauge. Your playing style will still be you, but your tone will sound different.

[fabstrat]

all the famous guys like gibbons who say they play 8's all played heavy strings on their famous recordings. ESPECIALLY guys in the 50's & 60's who had no choice. And even if we don't consciously say, OH MY! THOSE ARE 12's!, subconsciously its there, and, more importantly, the dude rocking out on the record DEFINITELY knew it was there.

[fabstrat]

and not to get in a huge discussion on string size importance but i talked to a famous pickup winder who said a lot of people can't find the "tone" their hearing in their head even with the best components/pickups etc. and he quickly makes note that almost all the guys in the early days were playing 11's and 12's where as i would say, today, we are at mostly 9's 10's. food for though.

[cephus]

That makes no sense at all since, unless you are playing an acoustic, you are also relying on an amp for part of your tone. If you plug into an amp with an EL84 power section you will sound different than if you use an amp with a 6L6 power section. Pickups, tubes, speakers, etc. play a much larger part in tone than string gauge. Your playing style will still be you, but your tone will sound different.

 

 

 

You're saying that you can tell the difference between el84s and 6l6s but not between a guy using 8s and a guy using 11s?

[Krank'N]

The only reason High-action appeals to some folks is the increase in tension . Yet how many of these same folks will de-tune or choose a different string gauge? The pick-up doesnt react any different provided you adjusted it along with the bridge ! So if you hear a difference its all in your mind! The one thing setting action too high will get you is a badly intonated guitar . The manufacturers set the height to a tolerance to get the most accurate intonation over the full range of the fretboard. Instead of screwing up your intonation then just try some heavier strings.

[Bro Blue]

You're saying that you can tell the difference between el84s and 6l6s but not between a guy using 8s and a guy using 11s?

 

 

I am saying there is more to tone than your technique and string gauge.

[BoneNut]

Yes. That is why I am shocked that you think it doesn't make a difference. Style alone should be enough to determine whether the guitar is set up stiff or delicately. I didn't grow up in the modeling era of sound production. I don't think a knob is going to make as much of a difference as the guy's attack or how he holds down the strings. Look, maybe your heroes all play with 8s and you think they have kick-ass tone. I think it's very obvious that their tone comes from their amp and pedals and not from their hands . I prefer intimate transparent guitar. That means you have to rely on physics and not electronics. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

No problem. No feelings hurt.


I guess you're right though, playing style could be an indication but not necessarily a determining factor. Plenty of guys play thin strings and get huge tone. I think Roy Buchanan played thins didn't he? That guy didn't even use pedals, just amps turned up to 10 and he had tremendous tone.

[BoneNut]

, and, more importantly, the dude rocking out on the record DEFINITELY knew it was there.

Damn! That means they've been lying to us all this time!?! I guess they just don't want us to learn their secrets. Maybe it's like when Satchmo would put a handkerchief over his hand so other trumpet players couldn't see what he was doing!


When you say "subconsciously it's there", are you saying it's like a placebo effect?

[fabstrat]

gibbons didn't start playing small strings until now. did you not read my post? most of the "famous recordings" were done in the 50's/60's/&70's when it was all 11's and 12's. whats not to understand?

[cephus]

When a learner first picks up the electric guitar, he or she is often most drawn to an instrument that has the strings as low to the fingerboard as is functionally possible, because this is easier on tender, unfamiliar fingers, and makes that guitar feel more comfortable in the beginner

[clay sails]

america has fat everything, including tone

 

 

I'd characterize the tone as shrill. Especially when it comes to political rants on Fox news. :poke:

[Willyguitar]

I'd characterize the tone as shrill. Especially when it comes to political rants on Fox news. :poke:

[Kid Klash]

OK, for ME, high action = harder to play/poor intonation/sore fingers. Unless it's for slide, I got my fill of high action guitars when I was a kid. High action also slows me down. YMMV - to each his/her own.

[Pope on a Rope]

 

The only reason High-action appeals to some folks is the increase in tension . Yet how many of these same folks will de-tune or choose a different string gauge? The pick-up doesnt react any different provided you adjusted it along with the bridge ! So if you hear a difference its all in your mind! The one thing setting action too high will get you is a badly intonated guitar . The manufacturers set the height to a tolerance to get the most accurate intonation over the full range of the fretboard. Instead of screwing up your intonation then just try some heavier strings.

 

 

There is a quite a difference in how the guitar feels adjusting the action and you can easily hear a change in how the notes ring out. Changing the height of your action is one of the most simplest and noticeable adjustments you can make.

 

Intonation can be easily adusted and it may even be necessary to do so when you change string gauges. You make it sound like it is something difficult.

[Bro Blue]

A higher action does not automatically equate to harder to play, and intonation problems do not start to occur (generally) until the action begins to get freakishly high.

 

What I have noticed is that blues or blues influenced players play with higher actions (of which I am one). The harder the music gets the lower the action tends to be.

[BoneNut]

gibbons didn't start playing small strings until now. did you not read my post? most of the "famous recordings" were done in the 50's/60's/&70's when it was all 11's and 12's. whats not to understand?

You're saying Gibbons didn't start playing thin gauge until now. What do you mean by now? Today? This year? This decade?

Ernie Ball was offering thin gauges back in '67. He didn't even make strings then. He just mixed gauges and offered them as packs to his customers. That was the birth of the famous "Slinkys". He toured them with pros across the country. They became so popular (jeez... you think the pros liked them?), that he was able to start his company Ernie Ball strings because of that.

Your example, Billy Gibbons, recorded his first album in the late 60s (Moving sidewalks). ZZ Top was formed in 69. Here's the discography...
1971 - ZZ Top's First Album
1972 - Rio Grande Mud
1973 - Tres Hombres
1975 - Fandango!
1977 - Tejas
1977 - The Best of ZZ Top
1979 - Deg

[mrbrown49]

I thought 10s were pretty standard in the late sixties and seventies ----> today.

[fabstrat]

well, I've heard that gibbons is keen on lying and messing with people, but I can promise you billy Gibson was not pumping 8's or even 9's on pearly gates in the 70's I'd say at least 11's. and from sources more ruputable than anyone but possibly CSM as far as hceg goes said the norm was 11/12's

[BoneNut]

Bone nut, did you even read the article, or just chime in to incriminate yourself?

Yes I read the Gibson article. So what? Gibson's word is written in stone tablets by a burning bush? All bow to Gibson's law!


You have made it clear you prefer higher action. Does that mean everyone else who prefers lower action "doesn't know what they're talking about", plays "total girlie man guitar", only play "delicate little angel fart guitars", is wrong or less than 14 years old?


You're taking discussion and turning it into an argument simply because someone has a different opinion. That seems pretty obtuse of you. Are you just a "bit" self centered? It looks like your location fits you perfectly... "Center of the Universe".

[BoneNut]

well, I've heard that gibbons is keen on lying and messing with people, but I can promise you billy Gibson was not pumping 8's or even 9's on pearly gates in the 70's I'd say at least 11's. and from sources more ruputable than anyone but possibly CSM as far as hceg goes said the norm was 11/12's

He might have played heavier strings and the guy could be as good at telling a lie as playing the guitar but if he wanted them, they were available at the time.


I think it comes down to a feel thing. Maybe a guitar thing too. I have a SA2200 that's set up with 11s and they feel perfect to me on that guitar but my Tele and Strat have 9s. I even tried 8s but I couldn't keep my chords in tune with them.

[Bro Blue]

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7122123

 

Guitars used: LTD EC400VF and Xaviere XV 500

 

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7120406

 

Guitars used: LTD EC1000 and 07 American Strat

 

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7624113

 

Guitars used: Ash Strat w/Fralin Hot Vintage (lead) and 50s Squier Classic Vibe

 

All with fairly high action, all strung with Ernie Ball nines.

[BoneNut]

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7122123 Guitars used: LTD EC400VF and Xaviere XV 500 http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7120406 Guitars used: LTD EC1000 and 07 American Strat http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7624113 Guitars used: Ash Strat w/Fralin Hot Vintage (lead) and 50s Squier Classic Vibe All with fairly high action, all strung with Ernie Ball nines.

I enjoyed "What next time".

[TruSlice]

What's the big deal?

 

 

 

 

Just lower the pickups and let your ears adjust.

 

Raising the action to freakish heights is just bulllocks. Who wants an uncomfortable guitar?

 

 

I feel comfortable to draw the line at that.

 

There comes a point where you shouldn't trade your enjoyment of playing over for the sake of a better and better sound.

[bebenavole]

high action = inflammed tendons

i just read the article

complete bollocks