Members ZigZagWanderer Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I visited a guitar repair shop recently, and the guy recommended using machine screws for bolt-on necks. He puts some sort of threaded insert into the neck and uses machine screws rather than wood screws. He claims it improves tone as well as preventing the wood screws from stripping. Has anyone tried this? Is there any tonal effect? It seems like a pretty easy mod and that more people would do it (or even manufacturers, actually) if it was a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members herrteufel Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I could see doing something like that on a test guitar, especially on the pickguard screws and such, but I don't think it would really be worth the effort on a typical build. Another issue could be clearance issues. By the time your bore out and install the inserts into the neck, they're going to be very close to the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Very easy to do and all the parts can be bought for Yes, you can get the neck tighter than with wood screws which should improve the tone. Probably to a degree that only someone with a golden ear could notice. People don't do it that often because the diffence is miniscule and most don't remove their necks often enough to worry about stripping out the screw holes. Mfgs don't do it becuase it's yet another thing that costs money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hondro Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 definitely. No worry about stripping the screws when they're screwing into metal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ten56gibby Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 I know some guys that build guitars and that's what they do with all of their bolt-ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 It does make a difference. It can also held reduce dead spots on your neck and adds more mass. Better or worse is subjective but having heard a before and after you don't need golden ears to hear the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Very easy to do and all the parts can be bought for Yes, you can get the neck tighter than with wood screws which should improve the tone. Probably to a degree that only someone with a golden ear could notice.People don't do it that often because the diffence is miniscule and most don't remove their necks often enough to worry about stripping out the screw holes.Mfgs don't do it becuase it's yet another thing that costs money. Do you have a list of the exact parts and sizes needed by chance? I was a bit overwhelmed when I was poking around for them (thinking about doing it on a guitar I'm building now). I've seen sets on line for $20, but I know damn well it doesn't cost that much for the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Make sure you get nice brass parts. You can buy any size. If your neck has existing holes you'll drill them out and insert the sleeves. Also, put sleeves in the guitar body and neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MahaloVision Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Lowes and Home Depot both carry threaded brass inserts. You simply pick the size you want to match the machine screws used. I use #6's for things like cavity covers, and 1/4" for bolting on necks (although I've switched to knockdown bolts on acoustic guitars). Here's how I install them. First, buy a few extra so that you can get used to installing them in scrap. Some experimentation is required to get the right size hole (in scrap first) that will hold the insert tightly but will not split the wood when the insert is installed. Cut the head off of one of the machine screws - it helps sometimes if you get a longer screw for this, but it isn't necessary. This will be chucked into a drill and used to install the insert. Put two hex nuts on the screw, threading them on just slightly farther than the length of the brass insert. The insert will snug up against the nuts when you install, and who doesn't like that? Apply a little bit of wax to the threads of the chucked screw. Then thread on the threaded insert. I use to leave the slotted end of the insert pointing up so that I could remove them with a screwdriver, but don't do that anymore because it looks crappy and it's too easy to strip the slot when trying to get them out anyway. So, slot end down. Before inserting the insert, I usually bevel or countersink the hole just a bit. I like to have the inserts sit just below the surface instead of dead flush, but that's just me. Don't use a ton of glue - you don't want any inside the threads, and it's not even entirely necessary for the job. Apply a little bit of glue to the outside of the threaded insert. You could use epoxy, but superglue works too. This not only holds the insert extra-securely, but also lubricates it a bit when it goes in. Put the chucked insert into the hole, make sure you're as close to vertical as possible, then slowly drill that sucker in. Reverse the motor on the drill and you should be able to easily unscrew the "bit" from the insert. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 For Guitars:4 - 1-3/4" long stainless oval head machine screws (8-32 size)4 - 8-32 steel threaded inserts For Basses:4 - 1-3/4" long stainless oval head machine screws (10-32 size)4 - 10-32 steel threaded inserts How to install. http://www.mosesgraphite.com/details/threadedinstall.html I highly recommend STEEL inserts over soft brass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 helicoils ftw. much more secure than plug-style inserts. much smaller hole required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thinkarogadum Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Seems like a lot of work for only a small increase in tone. It makes sense if you're taking the neck off a lot, but I don't think there's a big chance of stripping out those holes if you're careful. Besides, repairing a stripped out hole is a very easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Raxus Prime Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks for the link Web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar_stringer Posted January 29, 2009 Members Share Posted January 29, 2009 These inserts work very well, for this application. http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Truss+Rods%2FNeck+Parts&NameProdHeader=Bolt%2DOn+Neck+Inserts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 For Guitars: 4 - 1-3/4" long stainless oval head machine screws (8-32 size) 4 - 8-32 steel threaded inserts For Basses: 4 - 1-3/4" long stainless oval head machine screws (10-32 size) 4 - 10-32 steel threaded inserts How to install. http://www.mosesgraphite.com/details/threadedinstall.html I highly recommend STEEL inserts over soft brass... Beautiful! Thanks. I have an undrilled neck that I'm using for my strat build, so I might as well do these from the very beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 Haven't done it, don't know..On the Unofficial Warmoth thread, they strongly advise against the brass inserts. Apparently some have had them fracture installing them.Some of the zinc/potmetal inserts that show up in hardware stores are so bulky they can run into problems with the edge. Supposedly there are steel inserts that avoid the problems, but are intended for wood (unlike helicoils),. helicoils actually work really well in hard woods like maple. you just have to be careful with the tapping part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nwtsnma Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 cant shim though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members potaetoes Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 can too shim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nwtsnma Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 can too shim. you will cross thread it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 I wouldn't think it would cross thread. As long as the screw starts straight into the insert, it will bite down properly then when the body and neck get close, the shim will just stop it from seating all the way down. Having said that, shims can't possibly help tone or sustain. I have two guitars that have shims in the pocket and I think they sound fine, but for most people, there is more of a desire to sand the pocket to increase connection between the neck and body, not put a shim in there which minimizes the surface area contacting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MahaloVision Posted January 30, 2009 Members Share Posted January 30, 2009 On the Unofficial Warmoth thread, they strongly advise against the brass inserts. Apparently some have had them fracture installing them. Yep. They probably tried to screw them in using a flathead screwdriver. The chucked screw doesn't have that problem as long as you're not an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members headless Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yep. They probably tried to screw them in using a flathead screwdriver. The chucked screw doesn't have that problem as long as you're not an idiot. Thanks for the "chucking" technique! Last night I installed Zinc inserts on a cheap test-guitar. The brass inserts seem to have a larger diameter (I wanted to keep the neck holes as small as possible), and these zinc inserts accepted a hex-wrench for installation, which I thought would give me more torque when installing (rather that the slotted-head of the brass). Turns-out, torque aint such a great idea with the zinc---it's soft and strips easily. Your "chucking" idea would have been good (to bad I did the job without doing a search for this thread). The guitar I was working-on is a small-scale (24") and I went with the 8-32 size anchors. I screwed-up one anchor, so I mounted the neck with only three bolts. The neck seems very stable with just the three (undersized) bolts---the heads of the bolts were small enough to slip through the neck-plate holes, so I used finishing-wasters to keep this from happening. I didn't do this for any sonic benefit---just as an experiment, but I think that I'll be doing more of this in the future on my other guitars, but I'll go with the Brass or Stainless inserts next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bryvincent Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 the newer/recent YJM strats and the japanese YJM strats have those machine screws & inserts neck mounting. http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0107112841 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boonestunes Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Brad Paisley's guitars have those. I think it's for doing those 'headstock-tele-neck-bends'.... Think I might try this on a beater guitar......I'm guessing that it doesn't work well in soft body woods like basswood on cheaper guitars......... any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members headless Posted October 13, 2009 Members Share Posted October 13, 2009 Brad Paisley's guitars have those. I think it's for doing those 'headstock-tele-neck-bends'....Think I might try this on a beater guitar......I'm guessing that it doesn't work well in soft body woods like basswood on cheaper guitars.........any thoughts? I'm not sure how the body wood makes much different--usually the inserts just go into the neck wood, and the machine-screw heads rest against the conventional neck-bolt plate. Although I do think I saw someone mention that they had put the inserts in both the neck and the body, but I would think that aligning the threads of these two inserts on a single bolt would be difficult and there would be binding problems. Perhaps you were actually referring to the use of washer type things that allow you to to do-away with the neck-bolt plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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