Members Billster Posted September 30, 2009 Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota issued a safety recall for 3.8 million Lexus and Toyota cars because of potentially deadly floor mats. I would call everyone on my cell phone, but that could kill me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Chappell Posted September 30, 2009 Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 re: "Killer Floor Mats!" I was disappointed when I clicked on this thread. I thought you meant bitchin' floor mats, not lethal ones. I was so looking forward to replacing my coffee-stained carpet protectors with something awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2009 The Lexus floor mat death in San Diego was tragic. As I listened to the news reports and the 911 call from the panicked driver heading into the intersection with his family in the car and him driving toward death... it was horrible. To make matters worse, a spokesman from Lexus/Toyota came on and spoke of the tragedy. Then pointed out (paraphrasing): "This was a horrible tragedy. Please remember, in a situation like this not to panic. Put the gear shift in Neutral and use your brake..." Wow. So obvious, but in the heat of panic, so elusive. What a tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Chappell Posted September 30, 2009 Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 The Lexus floor mat death in San Diego was tragic. As I listened to the news reports and the 911 call from the panicked driver heading into the intersection with his family in the car and him driving toward death... it was horrible. To make matters worse, a spokesman from Lexus/Toyota came on and spoke of the tragedy. Then pointed out (paraphrasing):"This was a horrible tragedy. Please remember, in a situation like this not to panic. Put the gear shift in Neutral and use your brake..."Wow. So obvious, but in the heat of panic, so elusive. What a tragedy. I hadn't heard the details of that story. Tragic indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted September 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 Yes, that is tragic. I'm not making light of anything like that. But I am a bit put off when the recall story lead says "deadly floor mats". The floor mat did not cause death, it created a hazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2009 I wasn't being the PC, indignant guy, I promise . I'd just heard the news story and thought, "Holy {censored}. He could have put it in neutral." When you hear that tape of his 911 call it makes you shiver. Then to realize he could have easily avoided the disaster. The truth is, it didn't occur to me either. I heard the 911 and panicked right along with him. Scary stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted September 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 The truth is, it didn't occur to me either. I heard the 911 and panicked right along with him. Scary stuff. Maybe I lack the panic gene or something, but I can't relate. How the hell do you dial 911 while your car is careening out of control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2009 Maybe I lack the panic gene or something, but I can't relate. How the hell do you dial 911 while your car is careening out of control? Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted September 30, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Aw, gee, I thought that the'd be recalling my 2003 Lexus ES300 for sure. It has eyelets in the floor mats and hooks on the floor that are supposed to engage them and keep the mats from sliding forward, but the mats are always slipping off the hooks. No better than the past 50 years that I've had cars where the floor mats just rest on the floor, and when they slide away, you move them back. Did anyone find a web site that shows exactly what the problem (and solution) is? I never heard about the San Diego floor mat crash either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted September 30, 2009 Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 There's something about the way I splay my feet as I drive that seems to end up pushing the mats forward... It tends to get under the pedals rather than over them (thank goodness), but I've developed the habit of regularly pulling the mat backward with my heel(s). I'm a ditto on being bewildered at why the driver was mucking around with his phone to make an emergency call when he should have been paying attention to the emergency, but we're all human and I wouldn't want to add to the pain and anguish that he or she no doubt feels. (I haven't read the story and probably won't. I bum out way to easy as it is. Last time I read a story I told myself not to, I was creeped out and mildly depressed the rest of the day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted September 30, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 I'm a ditto on being bewildered at why the driver was mucking around with his phone to make an emergency call when he should have been paying attention to the emergency I saw a story (about the recall) in today's newspaper and it mentioned the San Diego incident. This article said that the family (who I guess was riding in the car) and not the driver called 911. What I don't understand is why he didn't just turn off the ignition, or take it out of gear (not good for the engine, I know) but then I don't know what I'd do myself in a panic. Oh, wait a minute. Yes I do. - I had a 1960 Volvo that had an accelerator linkage that tended to collect ice when driving on a slushy road. Once it froze, not at full throttle but at about 35 MPH. I turned off the ignition and pulled off to the side of the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted September 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2009 From the Huffington Post: In the August incident near San Diego, the fiery crash of a 2009 Lexus ES 350 killed California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, 45, and three members of his family on State Route 125 in Santee. The runaway car was traveling at more than 120 mph when it hit a sport utility vehicle, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames. One of the family members called police about a minute before the crash to report the vehicle had no brakes and the accelerator was stuck. The call ended with someone telling people in the car to hold on and pray, followed by a woman's scream. I did hear the recording on the news but wasn't aware it wasn't the driver/husband/father speaking. Sad, none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted September 30, 2009 Members Share Posted September 30, 2009 I thought on of the guys named Mats who post here were doing some home improvement work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Botch Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 Oddly, I had the accelerator in my 1991 Toyota pickup get hung up under the OEM floor mat a couple of times, it IS scary and fortunately I figured out what was going on in time (it probably helped that I lived in North Dakota then and you could avoid obstacles for a couple tanks' worth of gas...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 Yes, that is tragic. I'm not making light of anything like that. But I am a bit put off when the recall story lead says "deadly floor mats". The floor mat did not cause death, it created a hazard. Quick note: In the cited story, the lead in says "potentially deadly floor mats" NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota issued a safety recall for 3.8 million Lexus and Toyota cars because of potentially deadly floor mats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted October 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 Quick note: In the cited story, the lead in says "potentially deadly floor mats" NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota issued a safety recall for 3.8 million Lexus and Toyota cars because of potentially deadly floor mats. Pedant! Look, the floor mat is not going to kill anyone. It may create a hazardous situation, but the deadly part is not the floor mat. "Deadly Floor Mats" WBAGNFARB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 Pedant! right back at ya - same same I mean if we're criticizing interpretation/precision in the reporting we can bitch about the same in reporting of the reporting Look, the floor mat is not going to kill anyone. It may create a hazardous situation yup "hazardous" -- exposing to risk of harm risk - potential harm - in this case death but the deadly part is not the floor mat. It was a precipitating malfunction in the control system. While this may be an extreme case it does expose a control system problem that could also be deadly in other situations where operator correction isn't as ready an option for instance near traction limits or other times finer control is needed or with people/objects in front of the vehicle (parking lots, etc) - much like the audi auto transmission pressure drop cases of a number of years back (the ones that really led a push for the brake-on to shift out of park safety interlock) (personal note : I tend not to use driver's site floor mats for that reason. I'm probably not alone in experiencing minor hang ups. But I come from an auto engineering family so I got a healthy does for auto respect right from the get go... first think pop made me do was walk 88ft) hey don't get me wrong - my observations aren't about the politics of liability and blame all that - that's not my thing (it screws with failure/risk analysis) Mine were about 1) about reporting - much as your comment was. 2) about safety design and risk- I think it's pretty cool that it's something folks are willing to look at. I suspect we are approaching it from two different headspaces -- a lot like that discussion we were having about crash physics and mass parameters a few months ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 "This was a horrible tragedy. Please remember, in a situation like this not to panic. Put the gear shift in Neutral and use your brake..." we definitely don't require enough training - that's one thing that has always irked me about driver training and licensing.They really don't cover emergency situation beyond a remind to "steer into the skid" and a couple of things. a few years ago I was kind of shocked to find out how many people didn't know that the auto shifter is designed to panic slam into N I don't know of any state that requires breaking of traction during the test (my old motorcycle test did in KY) Wow. So obvious, but in the heat of panic, so elusive. It's a tough one we tend to be neurally wired for things that help us in monkey battlebut not so good for zipping around on rubber/road interfacesKeith Code brings that up in "twist of the Wrist" - 'your Survival Reactions are usually wrong' -- so it takes training and some concentration left over to work that context funny - I remember my first day on the track "you mean I can go as fast as I want?!?"seemed like a dream come truebut it was a lot harder than it seemed from the outside - "as fast as you want to" isn't nearly as fast as you think...it's shocking how sharp the edge can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted October 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 They really don't cover emergency situation beyond a remind to "steer into the skid" and a couple of things. "Steer into the skid" is pretty useless as abstract advice. The first few times I had to try that, the car spun out anyway. At least I didn't over correct and loop it back the opposite way. Having survived those adventures and developed a feel for it, it increases my confidence in making emergency maneuvers. But I don't think you can learn to correct a skid without practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 "Steer into the skid" is pretty useless as abstract advice. agreed - a lot of the driver's manual "steer into the skip" "gently apply the brake" etc isn't enough reading about it and doing it are different things (and one thing that always irked my about the "steer into the skid" is they usually neglect to talk abt throttle control during the maneuver) I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad they put it in the little driving manuals and such, but it's just not very much training The first few times I had to try that, the car spun out anyway. Having survived those adventures and developed a feel for it, it increases my confidence in making emergency maneuvers. I feel for ya - I was fortunate enough to have onboard coaching -pop made us learn to drive at/through traction limits and such and would advise us through it It was really helpful to experience those conditions in a controlled environment with instruction first A bit of a hardass maybe (not in a negative - it was one of those "practice makes permanent -- perfect practice makes perfect" things), but I really value it. It was cool learning it from an automotive engineering guy - he'd take us through the physics and then the practical and really tie it together (I think it really helped me understand - esp having to deal with different drive configurations and what to expect) It's part of training and testing I think is understressed (they are better about it with motorbikes in some states, but people could sure use a lot more practice) But I don't think you can learn to correct a skid without practicing. That and all of driving! gotta log the time man, now I'm missing pop (it's been abt 14 years since he passed, so it ain't a fresh wound -- but I still find it hard to go to automotive events. I just feel that hole) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Gnash Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm a ditto on being bewildered at why the driver was mucking around with his phone to make an emergency call when he should have been paying attention to the emergency ...The guy who made the phone call was a passenger sitting in the back seat; he was not the driver. Nevertheless I think the phone call was still a distraction for the driver. Fwiw it was a rental car, and Toyota already knew about the problem. Yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrashy Posted October 1, 2009 Members Share Posted October 1, 2009 I have had a lot of vehicular mishaps, like the chrysler newport that had a problem with the throttle, it went wide open and suddenly I had to deal with a 5000 pound car with a 440 that wanted to go, now! or a hood that flipped up on the highway completely shutting off all vision. I agree that it does help to have some practice, and a good knowlege of the systems and what they do. saved my butt more than once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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