difference between 34 & 68 etc?

[nenadnenad]

Okay, i know the difference between the two in the topic title is the accent;

first beat as opposed to first and fourth but what happens when you have 48 [ 24 ] , 78 [ 1416 ] , 58 [ 1016 ] , etc?

 

What determines if the time signature in a song or specific part of the song should be 58 or 1016? What are the rules for more 'exotic' time signatures?

For example, why should i write 1116 instead of 2232?

What happens if in 68 you`re accenting the the 1. , 3. and 5. beat? That would be syncopation?

[Elias Graves]

Well your lower number indicates what gets one beat. A 4/4 tells you that a quarter note gets one beat. 6/8 tells you an 1/8 note gets one beat.

 

The upper number tells you how many beats in a bar.

 

Thus, four quarter notes in 4/4 time you play one note per beat. 120 bpm=120 quarter notes. If you play in 6/8, then 120 bpm=240 quarter notes.

 

There are a lot of variations, what with cut common, 2/2, or even 9/8 but those are the basic.

 

EG

[nenadnenad]

I`m fine with that , if i understand you correctly.

Its the step before that i`m confused about.

 

I divide a melody into bars, i get 1116 , 1016, and lets say 1816 when counting 16th notes and adding up or dividing everything else to the lowest common denominator [ 16th notes ] but then i`m not sure if that should be written down like that or like 11/16+58+98 or 1116+1016+98 etc... ;o

i hope i`m not asking the same question twice after getting the answer

[Elias Graves]

It's not math. You aren't going to a lowest common denominator. The lower number (or the denominator if you were looking at a fraction) shows which value note gets one beat. So if a 16th note gets one beat, then your time signature is x/16 with "x" determined by how many 16th notes are in each bar. That can be tough to determine sometimes if you are writing it. I generally play it and see where the phrases fall. You should be able to hear the natural cutoffs. If you have differing numbers of beats in every bar then you have some work to do or you are really good. Multiple time signatures in a song aren't uncommon but are hard to pull off if you don't know what you're doing.

 

EG

[nenadnenad]

Basically, i got called out a few years ago by my brother for not playing in time while playing my songs.He and the bassist at the time were persistent, they set me up to play with a metronome in 44 while the song was in 68 ,with a short part in 78 and chorus in 44.

So they of course said " i told you so ".I was pissed off considerably because i just knew it was right, it felt right.Started asking people around and watching drum lesson dvds [ Portnoys for instance ] acquired guitar pro and started understanding how to divide the song into bars and how to count.

 

A friend later suggested that i don`t use 1416 but rather divide everything as much as i can, ie 78, to "simplify it".The difference between 34 and 68 or 78 and 1416 didn`t matter to me because the bar started and stopped at the right time so i could write the drum parts in gp and later ezdrummer to practice with something more than the song in gp on playback.In that regard, playback in gp , it wouldn't matter if i divided the bars up evenlycorrectly 3x 34 or used 94 because i didn't use the click.I still avoid clicks when using x16 because its distracting a bit.

I saw a topic at a local forum about the difference between 34 and 68 so that's why i`m interested in other time signatures.

As far as my brother`s concerned i have no soul because my playing is mathematical even though i didn't know at the time what a time signature or tempo is.

 

I`ll try and work this out with a teacher or someone similar.

thanks for the help.

[Elias Graves]

If you are playing solo it doesn't matter so much. When you have to play with others is when it becomes important. You all have to have a reference to stay together.

 

A lot of my solo work uses some bizarre time signatures, I'm sure, but I've never bothered to try to sort them out.

 

EG

[nenadnenad]

Yeah, i've sort of given up on playing in a r&r format for the time being since no one that i know is interested in playing with me or coming out of the things they're used to playing.

[DaveAronow]

Well, 3/4 and 6/8 are similar but they do have different feels to them.

 

In general, I think of 6/8 like 3/4 on speed.

 

The difference is that in 3/4 the accent falls on one, or actuall the accent could fall anywhere, but the "implied" accent falls on the one and the counting feels like this: ONE two three ONE two three ONE two three

 

6/8 feels like this: ONE two three four five six ONE two three four five six.

 

The best way I can think of to explain it is with examples: Once you recognize these feels, you dont forget them....

 

Listen for the implied accents and you can hear the difference....

 

 

3/4 time

 

 

lkzWF1UE1CI

 

Waltzes, for example, are all 3/4 time by definition. Listen to the accents of the implied beat. Not where the m usic is actually accenting, but the steady unwavering pulse that the music follows is accenting. Classic 3/4 time

 

 

Here is one with a 6/8 feel. Try counting along like I mentioned abaove. You will feel the difference

 

count this time while listening:

 

ONE two three four five six ONE two three four five six

 

Of course you could count this as walts time and it would work, but the implied accents dont line up. You are artificially creating twice as many as you should naturally be feeling.

 

Give these a try and see if it isnt making more sonse to you.

 

 

2NHFuZxxghs

so the thing could go either way based upon the speed, and the accents, Really.

 

Here is one that is kind of in the middle. You could think of it as a quick waltz 3/4 time, or like a slower 6/8 feel. You could really count this ekither way as you could with alot of 6/8 pieces.

 

I believe this one was written as 6/8 and that is the feel to me but you certainly could count it like a fast waltz 3/4 time if you wanted to and it would still feel right, if not a little quick.

 

Try counting it in both ways mentioned above.

 

I hope these examples help some.

 

kmqWkjEPWps

[IPlayMetronome]

In the history of the world no one has ever compared those 2 songs/videos. You sir have raised the bar:thu:

[nenadnenad]

Thanks.

i noticed on the last clip the drummer is accenting 1. and 4. with bass drum and snare [ awesome song btw ] and managed to count out the south park clip but the first one is giving me some trouble.

 

My woes with odd time signatures remind me of the weird accents flamenco guitarists use in 34 time

 

edit. tried to hit 8th notes with the right hand and quarter notes with the left to queen it feels very weird syncopated and i get lost in a second

[Jkater]

Among many other things... 3/4 could be a waltz, 4/4 could be a reel , 6/8 could be a gigue, 5/4 could be Dave Brubeck's best known tune. etc.

[nenadnenad]

I think i've figured it out.

The difference between 78 and 1416 is in the accents.

In my case, when writing down something that wasn't really thought out conscientiously but come upon viscerally, i just have to follow the melody to locate where the accents fall.

So, for instance 78 would be divided like this , 123.12.12 and because i don`t have a need for accents in 16ths its x8, that is, 78.

If the accents are like this , in 16ths, 1234.123.12.12.123 then it would be 1416.

 

Am i right here?

[JMR]

3/4 is waltz.

6/8 is not, it's compound.

[GreatDane]

6/8 is one of my favorite time sigs, for what it's worth.