Strat vintage tremolo and tuning stability

[mockchoi]

Hi!

 

Awhile back a very intelligent fellow whose name I can't remember posted some videos about strat tremolos and tuning. Basically, you set the tremolo to float and after each tuning you drop the strings to the fretboard with the bar. Once it's in tune, if it goes out of tune, dropping the strings to the fretboard brings it back in tune.

 

I tried it, and it works nicely. My question is, why? What is going on here? And is there any way to duplicate it with the tremolo set flush against the guitar body? I saw some other videos showing ways to make the tremolo stay in tune despite the strings being bent, but the mods are really beyond my ability.

 

Thanks!

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

This guy is now a forumite, so hopefully he may pop in and answer your questions

 

[YOUTUBE]O0Oyc6slYRc[/YOUTUBE]

[doc oc]

All that is happening when you bottom out the trem is that you are unbinding the strings at the nut.

[Bro Blue]

when the strings go out of tune they are binding in the nut. Using the trem arm loosens them to unbind them. It's neat, but a very lazy way to set up a guitar. Get the nut cut correctly, lube it, set up the guitar correctly and this becomes a non-issue.

[randombastage]

I've seen some kind of roller nut on a Strat before would this solve the problem as well or do they introduce some other kind of problem or poor tonal characteristics?

[doc oc]

They work, but not any better than a lubed well cut nut IMHO.

[Belva]

If you like bright the rollers are great. A graphite nut is my personal choice. And I don't even own a trem guitar! All this talk about lubing your nuts makes me think I'm at the amp forum.

[csm]

 

I've seen some kind of roller nut on a Strat before would this solve the problem as well or do they introduce some other kind of problem or poor tonal characteristics?

 

 

Yep -- the old Strat Plus and the Jeff Beck sig models featured roller nuts -- originally by Wilkinson (which JB still uses on his personal instruments) and latterly by LSR. I have a JB, and used to have a Plus, and the LSR nuts work fine with no tonal hit that my (admittedly battered old) ears can detect.

[cephus]

 

Hi! Awhile back a very intelligent fellow whose name I can't remember posted some videos about strat tremolos and tuning. Basically, you set the tremolo to float and after each tuning you drop the strings to the fretboard with the bar. Once it's in tune, if it goes out of tune, dropping the strings to the fretboard brings it back in tune.

 

 

In my experience with this method, when you bend strings, it pulls the guitar out of tune. You are pulling the tension in between the nut and bridge. When you slacken it by dropping the bar, the tension possibly (likely) gets stored between the tuners and nut.

 

I do the opposite. I tune it and pull the trem back to raise the pitch. Then when you get out of whack, pull pack on the bar to restore the tuning.

 

I play plenty of steel guitar licks and with 11s and 3 springs, the change in pitch of the non-bent strings is negligible.

[GCDEF]

What he's doing in that video is tuning to the point where the string usually bind in the nut when you use the trem. You use the trem, the strings bind, but because you tuned to that point, you have a good chance of coming back in tune. You'll notice when he bends is when the strings come unstuck and go horribly out of tune, which seems pretty useless to me. He's got some really good videos about keeping your strat in tune. That isn't one of them.

[mockchoi]

So if I have a well cut and lubricated nut the guitar would stay in tune even dropping the strings all the way down? Because in the fellow's videos (the ones in which he set up a guitar to stay in tune with both tremolo use and bending), he said that the alterations to the tremolo system itself were what had the greatest effectiveness on tuning stability, not changes to the nut/string trees/tuners.

[doc oc]

The primary issue is actually at the nut but, once that is fixed, the single greatest improvement will come form reducing break angle at the bridge.

[cephus]

 

So if I have a well cut and lubricated nut the guitar would stay in tune even dropping the strings all the way down?

 

 

When I come up from all the way down, maybe the G and E strings are a little sharp because the tension is being stored in between the nut and tuner. I pull back on the bar and the tension pulls out of there and is now in between the nut and bridge where I tuned it. It works best when the nut is cut right and lubed, but it still actually works on guitars that do pinch a bit at the nut (that's what she said).

 

Tuning from the dumped end is too unpredictable. Tune from the pulled back end.

[Bro Blue]

Any non-locking trem is going to have issues with heavy usage. Some minor, some huge. Like stated above, a well cut and lubed nut and strings properly wound around the tuning pegs will help.

 

A good thing to do on vintage tems to help is to tighten the two outer-most screws and loosen the four inside screws. It acts like a two point trem and tuning stability is much improved.

 

If you want to do gymnastics on it all the time you're better off with a single or double locking trem.

[csm]

 

A good thing to do on vintage tems to help is to tighten the two outer-most screws and loosen the four inside screws. It acts like a two point trem and tuning stability is much improved.

 

 

Definitely! I've had that mod on my '63 Old Bastard for almost twenty years ...