Members orbm1 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 At this point if I did return it I wouldn't even bother trying to get one at GC. I really hate my GC and refuse to buy this particular amp from them. It's a matter of principle. I'm either going to fix it by biasing it or exchanging it through M123. I have other amps so I can wait for a new one to be shipped. Totally understand... Sucks though! I have a great business relationship with two GCs close to my home, and both of my salesmen are Assistant managers....with one of them, now we have more like a friendship, and he can definitely make something happen if I play my cards right... oh well... Good Luck! Omar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Well it does seem to be heat related. I turned off the amp for a while and after I turned it on again it took about 15 or 20 minutes for it to happen. Once it starts it does it at least once every 3 or 4 minutes. I'm starting to think that even if setting the bias fixes it, there's still something wrong with it. When the bias is set too high it shortens the life of the tubes and can cause other damage to the electrical components but it shouldn't cause the footswitch to short out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alex W Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'd call Bugera also. I read something about a bad batch of footswitches. Luckily mine works ok and it was damn near close to perfect bias out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Well it does seem to be heat related. I turned off the amp for a while and after I turned it on again it took about 15 or 20 minutes for it to happen. Once it starts it does it at least once every 3 or 4 minutes. I'm starting to think that even if setting the bias fixes it, there's still something wrong with it. When the bias is set too high it shortens the life of the tubes and can cause other damage to the electrical components but it shouldn't cause the footswitch to short out like that. What you're going to do is run the tubes colder, which will cause the heat to drop and make them last longer. My guess is the bias is set to run the tubes too hot. If it's heat causing the problem, then it's somewhat of a design error, in that the heat from the tubes is in too close a proximity to whatever circuit controls channel/reverb switching and the higher heats causes a problem. If you see a bias setting below about -15vdc, then I would bet that's your problem. Decrease to -16.5 or -17vdc and you should be good to go. My V22 never had the problem when I had the bias set at -17vdc....not "cold" by any means, but not overly hot either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 What you're going to do is run the tubes colder, which will cause the heat to drop and make them last longer. My guess is the bias is set to run the tubes too hot. If it's heat causing the problem, then it's somewhat of a design error, in that the heat from the tubes is in too close a proximity to whatever circuit controls channel/reverb switching and the higher heats causes a problem.If you see a bias setting below about -15vdc, then I would bet that's your problem. Decrease to -16.5 or -17vdc and you should be good to go. My V22 never had the problem when I had the bias set at -17vdc....not "cold" by any means, but not overly hot either. I'm willing to give it a try but right now I'm not playing through the amp, just sitting here watching it, and it's still doing it. How hot can it possibly get when I'm not playing through it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'm willing to give it a try but right now I'm not playing through the amp, just sitting here watching it, and it's still doing it. How hot can it possibly get when I'm not playing through it? I'd turn it off...the bias could be set really hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Like I mentioned, my V55HD did it when I first got it. I didn't adjust bias at all, though I did check it and the 6L6's were just above hot, based on what Bugera says for their tubes. After getting really broken in, the amp has never done it again. I thought it was the footswitch too, but I have the same one plugged it that came with the amp. Works (and sounds) great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I'd turn it off...the bias could be set really hot. ok I shut it off. So much for gigging it tomorrow. Looks like I'm gonna have to spend some of the money I saved by buying it from M123 instead of GC on buying a multimeter. I don't think anyone should have to go through this with a new amp but I guess it's easier than boxing it up and driving it to UPS, although I may end up having to do that anyway. Hopefully not though. On a positive note, when the amp isn't busy trying to decide for me what channel I want to be on, it does sound really good! It looks great just sitting there too! btw, out of curiosity I did check to see which direction the bias pot works. Counterclockwise seems to make the amp hotter, clockwise colder. I made it slightly colder from what it was. Still didn't solve it. I'll have to take an actual measurement to see where it's really set at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Orange Jackson Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Personally I would skip the multimeter and send that baby right back for another one. Have them email you a label for free shipping. They should ship one out to you before you even have to put the other one into the mail. They have done that for me twice in the past. The multimeter suggestion is a good one, but I just wouldn't want to have to go buy one for a new amp. If you do buy a meter, still call the store and get them to knock some off the price to comp you for the meter you had to buy. Sorry to hear about the grief, part of the price we have to pay for super inexpensive {censored} from China.My Bugera 5 will be here tomorrow btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Multi-meter - Harbor Freight - $10 you need one anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I would be really surprised if the bias had anything to do with the foot switch. Just doesn't make sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 i'd send it back i expect stuff to work when i buy it new... anything else is unacceptable if you fix the problem... the manufacturer will just keep sending out crap instead of getting it sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 I would be really surprised if the bias had anything to do with the foot switch. Just doesn't make sense at all. It has nothing to do with the footswitch. I has to do with the power tubes running hot and causing problems with the circuitry that controls channel switching....over-heating it. My V22 switched channels with no footswitch plugged in at all, when the tubes were running too hot. When they were biased to run colder it didn't occur at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Orange Jackson Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Multi-meter - Harbor Freight - $10you need one anyway... I agree, still sounds like something is up with that amp though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 ok I shut it off. So much for gigging it tomorrow. Looks like I'm gonna have to spend some of the money I saved by buying it from M123 instead of GC on buying a multimeter. I don't think anyone should have to go through this with a new amp but I guess it's easier than boxing it up and driving it to UPS, although I may end up having to do that anyway. Hopefully not though. On a positive note, when the amp isn't busy trying to decide for me what channel I want to be on, it does sound really good! It looks great just sitting there too! btw, out of curiosity I did check to see which direction the bias pot works. Counterclockwise seems to make the amp hotter, clockwise colder. I made it slightly colder from what it was. Still didn't solve it. I'll have to take an actual measurement to see where it's really set at. Once you get everything sorted out, I'd love to hear your opinion with a shootout with the C30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 i'd send it backi expect stuff to work when i buy it new... anything else is unacceptableif you fix the problem... the manufacturer will just keep sending out crap instead of getting it sorted Send it back and get another that does the same thing. Invest $10 in a multi-meter, adjust the bias to proper level by turning a little knob just a wee bit and fix the problem. 30 minutes (including making up the cable needed) and you're done. You need to check bias anyway. What makes more sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 The V22 is worth the trouble to get setup correctly. I doubt there would be a 60+ page thread on it at TGP if it wasn't... Great sounding amp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Send it back and get another that does the same thing. Invest $10 in a multi-meter, adjust the bias to proper level by turning a little knob just a wee bit and fix the problem. 30 minutes (including making up the cable needed) and you're done. You need to check bias anyway. What makes more sense? for me it's a matter of principle... if i buy something new i expect it to work... if it happened again i wouldn't get another one... because as i said it just encourages the company to keep putting out {censored} that doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Like I mentioned, my V55HD did it when I first got it. I didn't adjust bias at all, though I did check it and the 6L6's were just above hot, based on what Bugera says for their tubes. After getting really broken in, the amp has never done it again. I thought it was the footswitch too, but I have the same one plugged it that came with the amp. Works (and sounds) great... So your saying that the tubes are now running cooler because the amp is broken in now. You didn't adjust the bias so what magic fairy dust is causing them to run cooler and not overheat the components that activate the footswitch? Did you ever think that maybe you still have a problem but it just hasn't showed up recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Multi-meter - Harbor Freight - $10you need one anyway... Cool. There's one not too far from me. I'm leaning towards sending it back and keep trying till I get one that works out of the box but for 10 bucks a multimeter is worth having. I've needed one in the past and had to go borrow one. Never bought one because I couldn't justify spending 50 bucks for one at radio shack. For 10 bucks though, I'll pick one up tomorrow while I'm running some errands. A few more positives about the amp, the volume controls actually have a usable range unlike my other amps that go from dead silence to blasting when you go from 0 to 1 and are maxed out by the time you reach 3. The built in tiltback is very also cool. I don't know if it was intentionally designed that way but it works great. I wouldn't gig with it like that but for home use it's perfect. ::edit:: ok, it's going back. Just for {censored}s and giggles I turned the bias almost as cold as it would go then turned the amp back on. Sitting here writing this post and keeping an eye on the amp without playing through it, 15 minutes after turning it on, it happened again. I don't know what the bias is set at but it's almost as cold as it will go and it's still happening. Unless the bias circuit is messed up, it ain't the bias. ::another edit:: btw, I'm still going to get the multimeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 How did you know which way to turn the bias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 So your saying that the tubes are now running cooler because the amp is broken in now. You didn't adjust the bias so what magic fairy dust is causing them to run cooler and not overheat the components that activate the footswitch?Did you ever think that maybe you still have a problem but it just hasn't showed up recently. I'm saying it was on the edge and after getting some time on the amp and everything settling in, the problem no longer is occuring. Bias drifted somewhat I would imagine. The problem was corrected with a fan at first as well...read all my posts. Edit: "Recently" would be for the past six months of heavy use...so no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 The V22 is worth the trouble to get setup correctly. I doubt there would be a 60+ page thread on it at TGP if it wasn't...Great sounding amp... I agree with this. It really is a great sounding amp. I'm a little disappointed mine has the problem. This problem has been pretty widely reported. I was hoping the odds would be in my favor but I guess not. I'll keep trying till I get one that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 How did you know which way to turn the bias? trial and error. I turned it one way and the amp got louder and the tone hotter, I turned it the other way and it got softer and less distorted. (per bugera's instructions on their website, I did put in on standby before turning the pot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vintage55 Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 How did you know which way to turn the bias? I'm not sure he does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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